Foreign Affairs Committee on Aug. 1st, 2006

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

You know, if we could proceed in that fashion, it's not a bad thing. I just find it bizarre that we went down this course to get there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Madam Lalonde.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I haven't hogged the microphone.

Needless to say, I'm disappointed with the discussion. If we want to wrap up, we need to deal with the Conservative amendment. Then we can dispose with each separate paragraph of my motion, if you wish. In particular, one part of my motion reads as follows:

Urges the government to support the calls of almost all other countries for an immediate ceasefire on both sides.

The motion could read as follows: The Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development urges the government to support the calls of almost all other countries for an immediate ceasefire on both sides.

Obviously, I won't be voting against my own motion, but if other committee members wish to do so, that's their business. At least we would have, from a procedural standpoint, a resolution urging the government to support the calls of most other countries for an immediate ceasefire on both sides.

I haven't changed a single word. This is exactly the same as one part of my motion. It's your choice whether to vote on this motion or not. Then we could move on to witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Are we ready to hear Mr. Van Loan?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I'm not sure I followed what Madame Lalonde--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

What I was calling for was the question on the amendment to Madame Lalonde's motion--the amendment. We vote on the amendment to your motion.

As the mover of the amendment, you have the right to be the last speaker to that amendment.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I would conclude by stating that I think this motion has a very fair approach that addresses the issues and respects Canada's proud tradition. It addresses the issue of a ceasefire and seeks to have a lasting peace in the region. It's a motion that recognizes that we want to see a strengthened sovereign government in Lebanon and that we want to see Hezbollah removed from there. That's the kind of long-term peace we want, the kind that is reflected in the United Nations Security Council resolutions. It makes it clear that we want to see Israel exercise restraint and that it should exercise the utmost restraint to ensure that civilian lives and infrastructure are protected. I think that's something we can all support.

I think it's also something that we can all support in terms of recognizing that the Hezbollah attack was unprovoked. That unprovoked attack by Hezbollah opened what Mr. Wrzesnewskyj calls the gates of hell.

It speaks to our sadness and condolences at the loss of life that has occurred in the Middle East. We feel it deeply.

It also speaks to those important aspects of the evacuation. It seems to me that the primary reasons this committee was called together have been forgotten in the discussions today. As I said earlier, I guess it was such a success that the opposition decided to change the subject rather than stick to the subject for which they called this meeting. But the fact is that we did successfully evacuate over 13,000 Canadians, without mishap, as far as I know. That is a tremendous, unprecedented effort. We should not only recognize and commend the officials in the government who did that, but we should also try to use it as a learning example.

This motion calls for the Department of Foreign Affairs to pull out the principles from this successful innovation and apply them elsewhere. I think it's a motion that effectively addresses the problems and challenges that we face today; respects Canada's position that we've played in the past as a leader, the position as a leader that we are playing today, the role that we've played at the peacemaking table in Rome, and our commitments under the G8 signature, which Prime Minister Harper laid down, to see a movement towards long-term peace. That's what we need: a long-term peace; a strong Lebanon; Israel, peaceful and allowed to exist; a list of terrorist organizations that are no longer allowed to operate, that are disarmed and disbanded.

That's what that calls for. That's what we want to see in place, and I think that's something all of us can support today. I expect that all members will support this motion as I've heard very little criticism of the content.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Van Loan.

We are now prepared for the question. I will not read through the amendment, unless you want to hear it.

All those in favour of the amendment brought forward by Mr. Van Loan to Madam Lalonde's motion?

A recorded vote has been asked for, so we will do the roll call.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

If you're going to have a roll call, I would ask that the motion be read back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I'll have the clerk read the amendment to the motion.

[The Clerk]

It reads as follows:

Move that the motion be amended by removing all the words after “given”, in line one, and substituting the following: Given the strong bonds of friendship that unite Canada with Lebanon and given that it is committed to its security; Given that of all Western countries Canada had the largest number of nationals in Lebanon at the outbreak of hostilities; Given that Canada is a long-standing friend of Israel, that it actively supported its creation, and that it is also committed to its security; The Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs: Congratulates the Government of Canada for the successful evacuation of over 13,000 Canadians from Lebanon; Calls on the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade to conduct a review of the procedures utilized to carry out the evacuation so that the successful principles can be applied to planning for future similar emergency contingencies that may arise; Offers its sincere condolences to the families of Canadians and all others who have died during the recent crisis in the Middle East; Recognizes that Israel was attacked on its territory by Hezbollah unprovoked, and that Israel, as a sovereign democracy, has a right to defend itself; Strongly condemns the launching of Hezbollah rockets into Israel; Calls upon Israel to exercise the utmost restraint in its military actions and take all possible measures to protect civilian lives and infrastructure; Calls on the Government of Canada to continue to support the Government of Lebanon and to support its efforts to peacefully disarm the militia; Supports the G8 summit declaration, which emphasizes the importance of a ceasefire that is sustainable and emphasizes the importance of working towards a permanent solution.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

On a point of order, I'd like to introduce an amendment to the motion that all the words after and including “Given” be deleted and substituted with:

That the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs calls on the Canadian government to urge an immediate ceasefire by all parties across the Lebanese-Israeli border.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I don't think that's acceptable because, following the condemnations, my motion says:

Urges the government to support the calls of almost all other countries for an immediate ceasefire on both sides;

We can't strike this here, and re-introduce it elsewhere. That goes against procedure.

I suggested earlier that we vote on the motion one paragraph at a time. Obviously, I'll be voting in favour of the overall motion. If others wish to oppose it, then so be it. However, the following sentence must not be deleted:

The Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development: Urges the government to support the calls of almost all other countries for an immediate ceasefire on both sides;

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Procedurally, I am told, we have an amendment here, and we would then go into a debate on the amendment again.

We have a motion that has been submitted. It was not submitted on time. A lot of what was in that motion, which will be coming later, is close to what is being amended here today.

I would ask Madam Lalonde.... First, this is not a friendly amendment--you're not accepting this amendment--so we would go into debate on the amendment.

To go through your motion point by point—and there are perhaps 20 points—is not procedurally correct. This is not a bill. We have to pass or defeat the motion as a whole. As for going through it point by point, this is not legislation; this is not a bill that's being brought forward. That's how we would deal with a bill. A motion is a motion. Unless there is a friendly amendment, or an amendment, that is the only way we would proceed.

Madame Lalonde.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I've been a member of this committee since 1999. We've said repeatedly that with respect to motions, it's possible to vote on specific parts of them. Really! We do that on a regular basis, at least here in the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, because we deal with complex issues. One day, a committee member tables a motion and the next day, someone requests an amendment of some kind. The committee then proceeds to vote on part or all of the motion.

We need to proceed carefully because we'll have to live with the consequences for a long time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madam Lalonde, I refer to the clerk for advice. She tells me that I'm correct. If this was a report, we would go through it point by point and say, yes, I agree with this; yes, I'd like this scratched; yes, we can wordsmith this; perhaps this would be better here. But this is a motion. When a motion is brought forward, it's either amended and voted on or it's not amended and voted on. Those are the only ways we can proceed with the motion.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I' m sorry, but the last sentence reads as follows:

Decides to report this resolution to the House, including its preamble.

We've agreed to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

That's part of the motion. The last point, including its preamble, that we report this resolution to the House, is part of the motion.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

This has been a very unusual afternoon indeed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We have a point of order.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Chair, do I understand that we have an amended motion on the floor that we need to debate?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

He has brought forward an amendment. That is correct.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

So now we debate the amended motion. The process is to debate the motion. Is that correct? Is that the next procedure?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

That's correct.

[An hon. member]

I would like to speak to it.