Evidence of meeting #28 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nato.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Technical Director, International Operations, Mennonite Economic Development Associates of Canada
Yes. There's no easy answer; it's step by step. It's a painful process. Sometimes it's risky.
I also want to mention something about Future Generations. It points to something very important. We come from North America. We want something to happen and we want it to happen now. We can maybe throw more troops at it and maybe we'll just make it happen, and overnight everything is going to start getting better in Afghanistan.
No. Rebuilding a country, creating democracy in a place that hasn't lived under democracy, is a long, slow process. The kind of project you were talking about, Future Generations, is building democracy from the ground up. That's the only kind of democracy that can ever work. Imposed democracy is not democracy; you have to have the empowerment of individuals.
I'll refer to the comment about anecdotal information, about “dropping by Afghanistan”. I hope that everyone has a chance to drop by Afghanistan and talk to some Afghan people. It's like that old adage: they're just like us. It's just like that Louis Armstrong song--people just want to build a better life for their kids. They just want to get on with it.
The analysts will tell us over and over again that the greatest risk for conflict is when young men do not have jobs. If young men have jobs, there are way fewer men to recruit for violent conflict. This is the number one determinant of reduced conflict: jobs for young men. The way I express it at MEDA is that if every guy has a sports car and a girlfriend, he's not going to go to war.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you.
Maybe we can talk to our car dealerships here in Canada. I don't know who we talk to on the other point. We'll try to do that eventually, I'm certain.
NDP
Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS
I had a short, specific question that I was hoping Mr. Paris would address. He looks very ready to do that. Thank you.
Associate Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa
I didn't realize I looked quite that eager.
You were mentioning the wages that the neo-Taliban is allegedly able to provide to its recruits. I've seen similar figures. Of course, there are conflicting reports on this. I've seen everything from $6 to $10 to $12. I think the UN drug office actually says in its recent report--the report on the 59% increase in the harvest--that it's up to $10 to $12, and that's more than double what people can get in the legitimate economy or from joining the police force. It's a serious problem, although the problem isn't just one of the resources available for an alternative livelihood. It's also an issue of people being driven to the Taliban in order to get protection for the livelihood they have, as they perceive it. I think the eradication policy is not working in our interest for that reason.
Personally--and in some ways I'm responding to the other witness, and maybe I shouldn't--I'm less enamoured with the idea of building democracy in Afghanistan than I am with being clear and modest about our goals in Afghanistan. I think that fundamentally we will never succeed in transforming that country into a kind of Sweden or into a shining example of democracy and development--not that you were suggesting that, but I think it's important to be clear.
Even talking about human security, in some ways, is too vague and ambitious for Afghanistan. Our interest, I think, and NATO's interest is to prevent this country from becoming, once again, a major base for transnational terrorism. Everything else flows from that. We need a government that's perceived as legitimate by most of the people there, and a government that's able to maintain a reasonable degree of security in most of the country, which are more modest goals, I think.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Paris and Ms. Jones, for your testimony and also for the answers to our questions. We appreciate your input.
We are just going to do a little bit of committee business in relation to one meeting for which we have had a cancellation. This can be done in one minute.
Basically, we had a cancellation from the group from Pakistan on Tuesday, the 21st. I have already spoken a little bit. If we could finish off our Haiti report then, we can get that out of the way. Are we all right on that one?
November 8th, 2006 / 5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
We are agreed. That's consensus. That's passed.
We also have a budget. Where did that budget go?
On the 28th and 29th, I think we should be able to finish up with witnesses on whatever there is on Bill C-293. If we can finish the report on the.... I don't want to go right back to the beginning on this report, again. Let's finish this thing once and for all in that one hour we have.
Liberal
Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
On the 29th you say we will finish Bill C-293. That is if there are no witnesses.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Yes.
Did you all get a copy of the budget? Did we pass that around?
Conservative
Peter Goldring Conservative Edmonton East, AB
You said to finish the Haiti report in that one hour that you're allotting.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Perhaps we can't. That's why I'm not going to back completely away from the Haiti thing. I want that Haiti report done. I think it can be done in an hour.
Liberal
Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Peter, can we meet on the Tuesday morning, as we did the last time?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I think if you could meet and go through it again and streamline it—
Madame Barbot.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
That's why we're keeping the 29th open. We have the Haiti report on the schedule. I'm hoping we can finish it, but if we can't, then the committee has to go back—
Now, I want to get this budget passed. Basically, the bells will be starting soon. We have the budget here. This is our travel budget to Washington. We cannot even make an application to go to Washington if we do not have this budget passed. So take a look at the budget.
Angela, do you want to summarize this a bit?
The Clerk of the Committee
We discussed it at the steering committee meeting, but we never had a chance to discuss it here. Members of the steering committee recommended that members use one of their four travel points for Washington on this trip. So the travel costs are just for staff, and then there are the hotels and per diems for all members and staff. It's calculated for 12 members. I had to put in dates, so I put in the week before the committee comes back--January 20 to January 24.
You could leave from your ridings on Sunday and go back on the Thursday.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Are there any questions in regard to that? Again, I want to remind you that we're talking about points here on the air traffic. So you'd use up a point.
Madam McDonough.
