Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2006

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

So “international human rights conventions and customary law”.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Maybe we need it in there twice to be very specific. Probably we do.

[An hon. member]

There's nothing like redundancy.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

There's nothing like clarity either, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

This is being passed on from our researcher--the way it may sound the best. How about this: “International human rights standards” means standards that are based on international human rights conventions and on international customary law.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The friendly amendment has passed.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Our time says it's 5:25. We have five minutes. Let's try to do another one. NDP-6.

Point of order, Mr. Martin.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Given the commitment that I think we've seen around the table to complete this bill before we finish for Christmas, I'd seek unanimous consent that we call our colleague--with regret--to not appear in front of the committee tomorrow and that we go to clause-by-clause on this bill tomorrow.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes, I've already instructed him that it's unlikely we'll hear from him.

That's Mr. Williams and someone else, on GOPAC and the other one. That was for the second hour. That's why we kept the final hour for the Ottawa witnesses. We can postpone them if we aren't finished this. It has already been done.

All right, very quickly, Madam McDonough. Is it possible?

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

I hope so. I'm having trouble finding my amendment, but I know why we're doing this.

The definition of the minister in the bill is the “Minister of International Cooperation”. But the Minister of International Cooperation is not a minister by statute, right? So the reason for this amendment is that it expands the definition to include other ministers as deemed appropriate by the government of the day.

We're talking about clause 3 being amended by replacing line 13 on page 2 with the following: “Cooperation or any other minister designated by the Governor in Council as the Minister for the purposes of this Act”.

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right.

Mr. Menzies.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I wonder if we need the word “Cooperation”. With standard government language, if you will, “minister” means the minister designated by the Governor in Council. I think we're referring to “competent minister” in many places here. I wonder if we couldn't just refer to the “minister”, meaning the minister designated by the Governor in Council.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Well, I guess that's what we're trying to achieve. Are you suggesting a different wording? I'm sorry, I'm not understanding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

That we strike “Cooperation or any other”, and that it be defined as “minister designated by the Governor in Council as the Minister for the purposes of this Act”.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

The earlier line of the bill would also have to be amended. We've just gone through this, when we were talking about RCMP and a number of development assistance portfolios under different ministers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

No, no, Mr. Menzies. Take it in context with the bill as written. “Cooperation” is the final word of the title “Minister of International Cooperation”. You would say “Minister” means the Minister of International Cooperation.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

That's my point. We're not always referring to the Minister of International Cooperation. We're referring to the Minister of Finance in some cases. IDRC funding comes from the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Are you suggesting, then, that “Minister” means any minister designated by the Governor in Council?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Yes, pertinent to wherever the development assistance is coming from.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

So it would be an amendment to the two lines. It would then read, “‘Minister’ means any minister designated by the Governor in Council as the Minister for the purposes of this act.”

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I don't know that deletion of “the Minister of International Cooperation” actually does anything to the legislation, the point being that the CIDA minister is going to be the main minister for the purposes of this bill. It would be almost inappropriate that you not recognize that in the definition.

And because witnesses said that while there are other ministers who could be involved in the administration—the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Finance and who else, we don't really know—that's why we added on, “or any other Minister designated by the Governor in Council.”

So you're going from more precision to less precision, and I don't see how you gain anything. I would therefore stay with the way it has been put forward in NDP-6.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Goldring.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

The point is that we may not have a Minister of International Cooperation at some time in the future, and to have it in here would be confusing.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Therefore, “any other minister designated” would apply.