Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 12th, 2006

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Excellent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right, we have a friendly amendment to that.

Mr. Patry, then. I don't see anyone else who wants to speak to this.

I'll just read what we have here: That Bill C-293 in clause 3 be amended by adding, after the former one:

“Canadian values” means, among others, values of global citizenship, equity and environmental sustainability.

I call the question on this amendment.

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We now move to amendment NDP-3, on clause 3. Madam McDonough.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

The proposed amendment to clause 3 simply deletes lines 20 to 22 on page 1. This is a response to persuasive concerns from practically all the officials from whom we heard that the inclusion of “advisory committee” here was problematic. There was wide agreement on that, so it just simply deletes references to the advisory committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Delete lines 20 to 22, the definition of committee. Is there no one to speak to that?

Mr. Patry.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I must say that I fully agree, because we don't have clause 6 any more. We cannot refer to a clause that doesn't exist.

Thank you.

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

In clause 3, after line 19, I believe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The reference number is 2573062.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

We just want to define democracy, Mr. Chairman.

Since we removed lines 20 to 22 when we passed Ms. McDonough's amendment, I move that Bill C-293, in clause 3, be amended by adding after line 3, on page 2, the following:

"Democracy" means political and civil rights as defined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We have democracy defined by the Bloc.

Mr. Obhrai.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I think we are having difficulty when we try to define these things. We are actually narrowing these definitions down completely.

Mr. Patry, you came along in the beginning and said you wanted a wider definition here. I'm having difficulty, in that we are making this bill more and more narrow with this attempt to define something that is of a broader definition than it actually should be, as happened in the last one here.

Our objection will be the same as on the last, that instead of opening this up and defining it more strongly and making the bill stronger, we feel it is making the bill weaker by narrowly defining what democracy is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Obhrai, would a friendly amendment taking out the word “means” and putting in “includes”...? “Democracy includes political and civil rights as defined in international”....

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

That makes the bill slightly better, but I think Mr. Patry was maybe talking about some--

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question for Ms. Bourgeois.

I do not know where you found this definition of democracy, but that is not my question. I would just like to know why you're adding a definition of democracy. Is there a reference to democracy in Mr. McKay's bill, C-203?

If there is a reference to it, there could be a definition, but I would like to know where the word democracy is used in this bill. Should we be providing official development assistance as such? If so, should this assistance be linked to democracy? I'm not exactly sure where the word "democracy" appears in the bill.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

At a previous meeting, which I missed, I believe something was added regarding democracy in clause 2. Perhaps the researchers could tell me this. Is that correct?

[A voice]

Yes. There was an amendment that referred to democracy. You are right.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

So I just wanted to say that it is important to define democracy, because article 25 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights reads as follows:

Every citizen shall have the right and the opportunity, without any of the distinctions mentioned in article 2 and without unreasonable restrictions: (a) To take part in the conduct of public affairs, directly or through freely chosen representatives; (b) To vote and to be elected at genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret ballot, guaranteeing the free expression of the will of electors; (c) To have access, on general terms of equality, to public service in his country.

So it would be extremely beneficial to add something about democracy to the bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I see a couple of problems with this. First of all, we've already passed clause 2 with an amendment that included democratic development or democracy promotion, and we've already included that. Now we're going to define it later.

My question, Madame Bourgeois, is whether this is defined in the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. This has never been referenced in testimony as we've studied this bill. So do you have the definition? Before we adopt this definition, I think it would be important that we hear the definition as defined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, because it's never been referenced in a meeting that we've had in studying Bill C-293 . So do you have that definition here? Do we have that definition?

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I just read the definition, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Is that straight out of the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights?

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That is correct.

Is the legislative clerk aware of this? No.

I have article 25 here. Shall I reread it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I think we had better hear it again, yes. I apologize, I wasn't aware that that was the part you were in.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Article 25 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights reads as follows:

Every citizen shall have the right and the opportunity, without any of the distinctions mentioned in article 2 and without unreasonable restrictions: (a) To take part in the conduct of public affairs, directly or through freely chosen representatives; (b) To vote and to be elected at genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret ballot, guaranteeing the free expression of the will of electors; (c) To have access, on general terms of equality, to public service in his country.

That is what is stated in the international covenant.

That is why I would like to add the definition of democracy. We would like to add the Bloc Québécois amendment which states that democracy means political and civil rights as defined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I'm the chair. I'm not supposed to....

We'd better go to Mr. Menzies or to Mr. Goldring.