Foreign Affairs Committee on June 6th, 2007

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

I'll just quickly answer, and I'm going to hand over to Minister Verner.

I can tell you I've been there four times now, and that's not an accurate representation of what's going on in Kandahar province. I can't speak for Helmand province, but in Kandahar province our troops are spread throughout the whole province, and support aid is spread throughout the whole province. There are thousands of families coming back who have returned to Panjwai and Zhari, and all these other districts. Life is returning there, and food is getting through. Certainly from my perspective and according to the reports I'm getting back from the troops, that's not quite an accurate representation of what's going on there.

But I'm going to hand over to Minister Verner.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Indeed, the Province of Kandahar still poses a challenge. We need to understand that the security there is extremely precarious, hence the need to work closely with our troops. That being said, some progress has nevertheless been achieved in Kandahar. According to figures provided to us by the World Food Program, 10,000 metric tons of food have been shipped there and this number is expected to grow to 20,000 by next year.

Irrigation canals have been built in Kandahar. When I went there, I even went beyond the PRT, to the village of Sola Kalay, in order to meet with the community development council. I had an opportunity to meet with farmers working in their fields and they showed me the irrigation canal which, thanks to Canada's financial support, had enabled them to irrigate their land and grow crops. Roads have been built there. We have announced a sweeping polio vaccination program. In the Province of Kandahar, approximately 350,000 children will be vaccinated. The program has almost been completed, and according to the discussions that I had with the World Health Organization representative when I went there, this disease has practically been eradicated there.

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Minister Verner.

That is the end of the second round. We'll go to the third round.

Mr. MacKenzie.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Through you, I'd like to ask Minister Day a couple of questions.

Members of the Canadian military are over in Afghanistan fighting valiantly every day, but we know that they're not the only ones. There are civilian police members, the RCMP, and members of Correctional Service Canada in Afghanistan, supporting the Provincial Reconstruction Team's efforts to rebuild that wartorn part of the world. Can you tell the committee how many RCMP and Correctional Service Canada members are currently working in Afghanistan, and what is their mission?

Also, in an earlier answer, you mentioned that the RCMP officers were assisting in the development of an Afghan police force. What progress has been made so far towards increasing the effectiveness of that police force?

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. MacKenzie.

Minister Day.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Briefly, first to reflect on the discussion around the table about the particular line of questioning, this has been a civil discussion today. There has been no abusive language, with one very notable exception.

All we are saying here is that when all the questions for month upon month are about apparent or alleged mishandling of suspected terrorists, when that's the only line of questioning—and those questions are appropriate—and we never hear about anything else, that's why, as Mrs. Gallant has said, troops start to get a certain message. That's all we're saying.

In terms of the RCMP, there are presently eight RCMP officers. There are moments when this might change, as when a visiting officer or two might be over there for a specific purpose, for the transfer of information or for training. They are there principally, but not entirely, to train and mentor the growing capacity of the Afghan police. It is growing, and this is brand new to the Afghan people and police.

This is the first time they see human rights being applied in police work, and they are responding to it very favourably. That is principally, but not exclusively, the RCMP's mandate.

In terms of our two Correctional Service officers—there are only two over there at the time—they're doing a formidable job in terms of visiting these facilities. Their mandate is to encourage capacity building within the prison system. As we've already said, they report if there are allegations of abuse or torture, but principally their mandate is to mentor, guide, and lead the capacity building within the prison facilities.

They are also making reports on what they feel would be positive additions in terms of infrastructure or even in terms of some of the basic elements of life. These are third world prisons; make no mistake about that.

In all of these questions, it's which direction in which are things going, and the direction in which they are going is the direction of improvement. There is a long way to go, but they have made a very good start. Our officials have made a very good start, not just working with the Afghan officials in the police forces and the prisons, but the level of acceptance of Canadian officers by the Afghan officers is very high, and something we can be proud of.

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

You have one minute and twenty seconds.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

The last part of that question was about their assisting in the development. Have you seen what the progress is? How are we making progress with the Afghan police, and what are some positive steps they have been able to make with the help of Canadians?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I have seen it with the police in action in their training. When I was over there—as I think I indicated earlier—I was not able to get outside the wire to the prison, because some attack warnings had been received through intelligence on that particular day. I am responding to reports from our officers and others who have been there.

If I could close with this comment, the questions today from the opposition were appropriate in terms of what they're asking; however, it is worth noting that there has not been one question, either today or at any time that I've ever heard, about what we are doing to make sure the so-called detainees and suspected terrorists are not escaping to kill more Canadian soldiers and civilians. This is heard very rarely. There's a lot of concern about treatment, and we say that's appropriate, but very rarely do we hear questions about what the Taliban has been doing not just to Canadian soldiers but to Afghan citizens.

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, Mr. Day.

We're moving over to the official opposition. Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see you here, Rick, helping us organize this chaos.

The CIDA minister continues to paint the rosy picture of her rollout of aid in Africa and Afghanistan. There's a report today in the National Post. It's a quote on the failure of the anti-drug program, the anti-poppy program, in Afghanistan. There are some quotes here from some international sources saying:

There is something inherently wrong with the entire program, from the complicated application process, to confusion over what projects are eligible, to the sheer impossibility of working out who's actually doing the approving and the rejecting.

It states that the Afghan bureaucracy is cumbersome and can only roll out so much of the program. There's been $3 million allocated to this program, and it's ineffectual and it's not being rolled out properly. The Senlis report has been often criticized here today. The Senlis report has some good ideas about dealing with the poppy eradication, and it's only fair to our troops that we deal with the whole situation of the poppies in a proper way. The Americans are not doing it in a proper way. We should not be following their suit.

I'd like to ask the minister of CIDA what she is going to do about increasing and getting some efficient rollout of the program and showing some results. As Mr. McGuire mentioned, in those two southern provinces the poppy cultivation is up as of last year.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The member's first question pertained to the Special Anti-Drug Program Fund. In March 2006, Canada gave one million dollars as part of a grant to the United Nations Development Program. Our contribution was earmarked for the part of the fund focusing on supporting economic activities and sustainable subsistence methods. Canada, which sits on the project steering committee, which is to meet next month, will be examining the whole issue of project progress very closely.

The other part of the member's question pertained to the Senlis Council report. I would simply like to add to what I already said, namely, that we always consider the various proposals made to improve assistance in Afghanistan. That is why we are there, Mr. Chairman.

The fact remains, however, that the Senlis Council did make numerous allegations and, further to a meeting that took place last week between representatives of this council and my departmental officials, many questions were asked. Why? Because we do want to continue making progress in Kandahar and elsewhere. I must tell you that we are still waiting for answers, because the representatives could not provide them during the meeting.

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thanks for that answer, I guess, in a way. The proof is going to be in the reduction of acres. That's where the proof is going to be. You can do all the studying you want, but unless you see a reduction in acreage, we are failing over there.

My next question is back to the monitoring of the prisoners. We have an agreement in place. Has the monitoring started? Who is monitoring—which one of our departments is monitoring the prisoners? What resources is the government putting into it?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

To answer the question directly, of course the monitoring has begun. There have been five visits. That's based on information—I'm not sure you were here earlier—by which the Afghan ambassador informs us that five visits have been completed. Of those visits, they stressed the need for the Afghan authorities themselves to comply with the enhanced agreement that these unrestricted and private visits were to take place and that at the same time the further capacity building within the detention system itself was to continue. That, of course, is being assisted by Correctional Service Canada.

In addition to that, this enhanced agreement, as you know, guarantees that there will be a clarification as far as the lines of communication go as to responsibility. There are commitments by the Afghan government itself in regard to international standards of human rights and their own domestic law. Any reported abuse that involved detainees who were turned over by Canadian Forces is to be followed up, and we are expecting fully that a report will be returned to us.

That having been said, the ambassador informs us that the head of security, who is acting as the senior adviser to the President himself, advises him that this will be adhered to. This was the same information that was relayed to the Prime Minister directly by President Karzai on his recent visit.

This process is well in place and is creating a great deal of confidence with respect to future situations around detainees.

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, Mr. MacKay.

Mr. Del Mastro is next.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I would submit that you cannot wave the flag of support for the forces but only ever offer criticism for the efforts that our Canadian Forces and our officials are making in Afghanistan. You cannot stand for human rights and equality while campaigning to abandon our efforts to ensure a permanent end to the abuse and oppression of the people of Afghanistan.

This meeting was called regarding alleged potential detainee abuse in Afghanistan, but there is a broader issue of abuse that we know, and that was documented under the Taliban.

My question is to Secretary of State Guergis. It's clear that many in the opposition are either unaware of or don't want the message of the significant gains that we are making in bringing human rights and equality to Afghanistan. Can you talk a little bit about what you witnessed on the ground in the first-hand testimony you heard when you were in Afghanistan?

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Go ahead, Ms. Guergis, very quickly.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thanks very much for the opportunity.

You know something? You're absolutely right, it is really important to point out that there have been too many members from the opposition here either rolling their eyes or complaining that we are making an attempt here to show Canadians and express to Canadians the incredible progress that is being made in Afghanistan.

There has to be balance. They want to know about the progress. They want to know what our brave Canadian men and women are accomplishing.

[The Co-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you for your comments.

The bells have started, and according to our Standing Orders, we must adjourn.

I want to thank all members for their questions today. Especially, I want to thank the ministers for the very good answers and for the clarification of some of the concerns that were brought forward in that motion.

We are adjourned.