Foreign Affairs Committee on June 6th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Good morning, committee. I want to welcome everyone here this morning. A special welcome to our Finnish foreign affairs committee.

This is the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, meeting number 7. We are very pleased to have with us this morning the representation of the Finnish Parliament, the Finnish foreign affairs committee. We welcome you to Canada, and we certainly welcome you to this committee.

I want to thank your ambassador for arranging this. I've had the pleasure of meeting him, and he has certainly been very upfront in encouraging us to get together as two committees who in many cases are working for the same issues around the world. We welcome you, and we welcome your chairperson, Ms. Liisa Jaakonsaari. If I mispronounce these Finnish names, I apologize.

I think I can call it a pleasure when we have two foreign affairs committees coming together. Canada and Finland have had much in common as northern countries, as bilingual, democratic states whose economies are modern and innovative. Canada and Finland share a great deal of similar values and a commitment to a rules-based international system. It provides the foundation for our like-minded approaches to global issues on the multilateral agenda.

Both our nations promote human rights on the international stage. Both our nations contribute substantially to international peacekeeping and crisis management. We are concerned with environmental protection, sustainable northern development, indigenous affairs, advanced social policy, and regulation of information technology. Canada and Finland enjoy a busy program of high-level visits providing opportunities for dialogue on numerous bilateral and multilateral issues. We work together constructively in a range of multilateral organizations such as the United Nations, OSCE, OECD, Arctic Council, and the WTO.

In June 2003, the Canadian embassy in Helsinki co-hosted a regional seminar on the Responsibility to Protect report of the International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty. We worked with the Finnish government. Our two nations engage in many kinds of relationships, including academic and cultural relations, trade and investment, and science and technology, to name a few areas.

We welcome you. In this meeting we invite you to share the message you bring from your government, or from your country. We can then move into a series of questions from opposition and from government. We'll try to keep the time and the questions fairly short and the answers concise. Again, we welcome you.

[Liisa Jaakonsaari, Chairperson, Delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament]

Thank you very much for your kind words.

Your family name sounds like a very Nordic name; that's why we feel so comfortable here.

Thank you very much for making this meeting possible.

I remember that it was a Canadian professor, Marshall McLuhan, who predicted that the world would be a village in the future so that we are interlinked. His prediction was really more than right, because now we all feel that all threats and all challenges are common. Especially in my committee, the foreign affairs committee, we have emphasized the role of transatlantic cooperation among the European Union, the United States, and of course Canada. It's actually the main reason we are here.

We have enjoyed your hospitality and of course this wonderful weather. I called Helsinki, and I heard that it's rather cold there. It's very beautiful weather here and it's nice to be here in general.

This nature of the world as a village is a reality. The main issues on our committee's agenda are, for example, energy and security. It's a huge challenge for Europe and for the whole world, of course, how to combine the nexus between development and security. In Finland we have been pondering how we could strengthen security in the northern part of Europe.

It's actually a very crucial time now, because Finland is running for the EU presidency rather soon, next month. We'll be able to raise some important questions on the European Union's agenda.

You perhaps have the impression that the European Union is disputing all of the constitutional treaty. That's actually not true. It's a very controversial issue.

But in the field of foreign security policy, the progress within the European Union has been extremely good. We have achieved a lot. One of the main ideas on Finland's presidency agenda is on how to strengthen the European Union's role as a world actor, because we need different tools to solve problems in the Middle East and in other parts of Europe.

Of course, this very timely question of terrorism was more than some months ago. We have really been following your analysis of the Toronto case of last weekend.

Thank you very much once again for receiving us.

May I give the floor to members of my committee? I'm sure it would be better for everyone to introduce themselves.

My name is Liisa Jaakonsaari, and I am a Social Democrat in a centre-left government party. According to the opinion polls, we are now the biggest party in Finland. We've now started this internal dispute.

Aulis.

[Aulis Ranta-Muotio, Member, Delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament]

My name is Aulis Ranta-Muotio of the Centre Party of Finland. In the last election it was the biggest party. I hope that after the next election we will win again. I am a member of the committee.

[Maija Perho, Member, Delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament]

My name is Maija Perho, and I represent the biggest opposition party. Of course, we hope to be the biggest ruling party after the election in March of next year.

I'm a member of the committee on foreign affairs and also of a committee on violence in Parliament. I am with the National Coalition Party.

[Antero Kekkonen, Member, Delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament]

My name is Antero Kekkonen, and I'm a Social Democrat.

[Jari Vilén, Member, Delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament]

My name is Jari Vilén. I'm also a member from the opposition, the National Coalition Party. I have the privilege of chairing the so-called Grand Committee of the Finnish Parliament, which is responsible for European Union affairs at large.

We were number three in the opinion polls this morning, which was publicized at 20% of the votes, but I think in the coming months we will see how developments happen. The tradition in Finland is always that with two out of the three larger parties, one is in government and the other is in the opposition. We were sixteen years in power. It's now our turn to be in opposition for four years. But I think after the elections we should see again about who will stay in opposition and who will stay in the government.

As our chairman said, especially concerning the foreign policy issues, there is a very strong consensus tradition in Finland. We do not have too many differences in this area, and I think you will find that out when we have a further discussion with our colleagues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, sir.

[Johannes Koskinen, Member, Delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament]

My name is Johannes Koskinen from the Social Democratic Party. As Jari said about the rotation between the parties, there's also rotation inside the parties. I was the Minister of Justice for six and a half years, but last September there was a rotation of cabinet members. Now I'm now a member of the foreign affairs committee, the grand committee, and Parliament's constitutional committee.

[Jari Vilén]

They're keeping him busy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

[Liisa Jaakonsaari]

Excuse me, Chair, I would like to introduce our ambassador and our counsel to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Ambassador and counsel to the committee, welcome.

We'll go into five-minute rounds. We're going to try to keep the questions and the answers to five minutes, which will give more people an opportunity to ask questions.

From the opposition side, the former chair of the committee and the vice-chair, Mr. Patry.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Madame la présidente, Mr. Ambassador, welcome to all the committee.

I have two questions, and I'll go directly to them. In a sense, both concern the EU. Knowing that Finland held the presidency of the EU in 1999 and will again be president starting this coming July, during your presidency in 1999 the EU's northern dimension was a major initiative put forward, which continues today. I would like to know any scoop that you can provide us on what major initiatives Finland would like to achieve during this second term of presidency. That's my first question.

This is the second question. If you're looking at the geographical situation in Finland, in fact it has a very special relationship with Russia. Russia is your fourth-largest trading partner. There will be two more members in the EU next year—probably Bulgaria, but not right away, since there are still problems in Bulgaria. With these two new accessions, you'll get seven members of the former Soviet Union. Do you see any change in the stability in the region concerning Russia?

Those are my two questions, please.

[Liisa Jaakonsaari]

Thank you very much.

They are really crucial questions. As far as Russia is concerned, Finland and Russia actually have nowadays a very good relationship. There are no major political problems. There are lots of practical problems due to the very busy trade between Finland and Russia. There's border crossing. There are a lot of practical questions. Of course, Finland is benefiting a lot from the booming economy of Russia. But we are worried about the internal development of Russia because during Mr. Putin's regime the democratic development has not been very positive. We know from the experience of world history that without democracy there will not be development in the long run. That's why we are worrying about the situation in Russia. The situation of the civil society is cause for concern, and the violations of human rights. On the other hand, due to the high price of oil the standard of living is rising in Russia. The people can get salaries and pensions, so in that sense it's a good situation.

As far as your question concerning the EU's enlargement is concerned, I think that it has created stability in Europe. All these new countries are members of NATO, and our assessment is that this has enhanced stability in the whole of Europe.

As far as the northern dimension is concerned, Jari Vilén, the chairman of the grand committee, would be able to answer that question.

[Jari Vilén]

I'll try to be brief to give my colleagues also a chance to comment, because then you might see the variation that we have with different party affiliations. But actually on the principles of European policy there's a very large unanimity in Finland.

You asked about the priorities that we have in the coming presidency. I would very briefly note three or four of them.

First, of course, is the relations to the north and northeast, the Finnish relation with Russia, and especially the EU relation with Russia. We will have a special European Union and Russia summit during the Finnish presidency. Probably the highlight for us Finns will be that in that summit there will be decisions on the continuation of the so-called northern dimension policy, which will be, as we believe, a cornerstone for the regional cooperation between the European Union and Russia. This is will be very important in the field of environmental protection, hopefully in the energy field, and also in the logistics, because Finland is the trade route to Russia and from Russia, back and forth, as our chairman said to you.

An element that I think will be even more crucial, taking into account the perspectives given by our president of the committee, is of course home and justice affairs. The European Union is trying to enhance its cooperation in the field of police cooperation in combating against organized crime and illegal immigration. This will be one of the high priorities during the Finnish presidency. We're trying to have more concrete decisions, decisions people deserve. Also, part of that is, of course, campaigning against terrorism.

Thirdly, we will have to discuss the treaty but we don't expect to have any outcome from that. As I said, we will maintain the commitment concerning enlargement. I believe that on the first of January 2007 there will be both Bulgaria and Romania as members of the European Union. Then comes the big question of what happens afterwards. I hope that Finland can maintain the momentum also for the new candidate countries that we have, for Turkey and for Croatia. When they will come, of course, is another question.

The priority is also, quite understandably, in these areas. Austria has a priority in the Balkans, and we have a priority in the north. So it's clearly a continuation of the policies of the European Union. Of course, the foreign policy will be one of the priorities too. There are many issues on the agenda that we have to tackle. I'll just mention the issues concerning the Balkans, how to stabilize the region and how to further support the decisions. One of the very concrete decisions that will come before the end of the year concerns Kosovo, the status of Kosovo, and I think we all believe that the outcome cannot be anything except independence. Independence means a very long-term commitment by the European Union, the presence of troops, international aid, and we have to prepare ourselves for that. Of course, preparation for the European Union military capacity will be one of the issues in the Finnish presidency.

At the beginning of the next year the European Union should have its own rapid deployment troops available, including the Finns in the first of those contingents. It's a very busy agenda and a very heavy agenda.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

We want to go to Madame Lalonde.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In Canada, we have an Official Languages Act, and French is one of the country's two official languages. I represent the Quebec riding of La Pointe-de-l'Île, and I'd like to start by telling you--and I'm certain Bernard will agree with me- that Quebeckers had a genuine love affair with a famous Finn, Saku Koivu, especially when he recovered from his bout with cancer. Recently he has been having eye problems. We know more now about Finland since the arrival of Saku Koivu on the scene.

I also have two questions for you. First of all, how important is it to your committee to achieve the millennium objectives? Secondly, in the area of foreign affairs, maintaining and securing peace in the Middle East is a desirable goal, given the current situation and possible repercussions. Have you looked into this and what is your position on this matter?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Vilén, or whoever.....

[Jari Vilén]

I will give room for everybody, but I will start very briefly with the concern, especially, about the millennium target.

it is a commitment Finland has made. It's a commitment that is shared by all parties, both from the opposition and the government.

Of course one of the crucial elements of our millennium target is reaching the 0.7% in development aid, and this is currently—and I think it would be proper to give the floor to the government parties—in the government program. But I think in practice we have to say that we'll not be able to achieve the 0.7% by 2010. We currently have reached 0.43% in aid.

The European Union countries have themselves, last December, decided on another revised timetable for reaching the objective; it's by 2015. I believe that is a very realistic timetable, and it's something the Finnish government can also reach in the next government period, which starts in 2007 and stretches into 2015. I think it's something that is sustainable and can be done in such a manner that the money will be well spent and especially targeted for the right purposes. As I said, I think all our parliamentary parties except one are in favour of this timetable, and especially of fulfilling the commitments we have undertaken.

I'm sorry, what was the second part of your question?

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The Middle East.

[Jari Vilén]

The Middle East; that's right.

Johannes?

[Johannes Koskinen]

The European Union is active in trying to solve the frustrating situation there. The very acute problem is how to finance the Palestinian Authority, and the commission is trying to find a way that President Abbas or his administration would be the channel to allocate the funding from the EU and the member states. Norway has also started humanitarian funding through the same kind of channel, and we hope the United Nations will also be active in this effort.

It would be crucial to have the solution in a few weeks, to avoid a more catastrophic situation in the Palestinian areas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Madam Chair.

[Liisa Jaakonsaari]

May I ask one question?

We are discussing now in Finland how to strengthen the role of Parliament in security and foreign policy issues. In Finland the government presents a white paper every four years. Once you're in your term of office of government, then you give a big picture in that white paper. My committee has a little bit criticized the style, because the world is changing so fast that we have to be able to draw also these big lines faster than we can do in this report. My question is this. How are you consulting with your government, and what is the method you are discussing, and how does the government inform your committee on the question of foreign security policy?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

First of all, I think our committees are set up very differently, as I understand them. As I understand the responsibilities of the Finnish foreign policy committee or foreign affairs committee, you are also the oversight committee of security. Is that correct?

We have a number of different departments. I know that the prior government conducted a study, in which I was vice-chair of national security. We were looking for a parliamentary committee that could be an oversight of the intelligence-gathering agencies that we have here in this country.

I want to study more the Finnish model because, as I understand it, your committee specifically is the oversight for even those intelligence-gathering agencies. Is that correct? That is correct. So we are set up very differently. In security we have our intelligence-gathering agency, CSIS, and our RCMP, which are all part of another department, the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. We have an oversight committee of CSIS, known as SIRC, that goes through to make sure that everything that is carried out in this agency of CSIS is done properly so that every human right is recognized and protected.

So they are very different. How we have reports to our committees.... Our committee is not structured as yours is. We have ministerial accountability. Ministers will come--in fact we're expecting one this afternoon, and we had one last week--to give us an update on how that department is, or how Canada is, in that certain area they're responsible for.

I'm not certain if that's answering your question. In the last week, for example, we had a minister who appeared. He talked about Hamas and about the Middle East. He talked about some of those issues, but it's our responsibility to be aware of it but not to be necessarily the oversight of any of that.