Let me start with the RIM China situation. There are a number of issues for RIM. One is exporting the hardware that's manufactured here to China. Another issue is having the software and licensing the system that is designed with Chinese telecom carriers. A third issue is actually being able to establish there and deliver the backup, the back office, the support services to run the RIM-type service through Internet suppliers and telecom suppliers.
So any of those aspects can trigger an investment obligation. It's not an investment-type obligation. It's either an investment treaty-related obligation and it falls within the parameters of the substantive treaty--which we don't have yet with China, but which is under negotiation--or it isn't. So that's a substantive issue.
Let's say one day we do sign a treaty with China. The fact of having ICSID in place, as I think I mentioned in my answer to Mr. Martin's question, I would say is of huge benefit, because, assuming RIM can fit its claim--whatever the claim might be--within the four corners of an eventual FIPA with China, then having the option of going the ICSID route is one that certainly, I would say as an investor's counsel, I would have recommended.
In one case that I initiated against the Government of Canada, we didn't have that option. I was acting for an American company, and we didn't even get that far. We eventually settled the case, which I think was a good thing for everybody concerned. But certainly, if it had gone further, I would have gone the ICSID option, if we'd had that option, so I think you're right.
Secondly, in terms of softwood lumber, maybe I was a little hasty in saying it wouldn't have made a difference. Substantively, it wouldn't have made a difference, but you know, to the extent.... I don't think it would have made a difference in terms of the Americans' approach to the dispute. The Americans are big fans of the WTO, but, boy, you put zeroing or any of their favourite issues in litigation, they will litigate them to the hilt to the final minute. That's just the American style.
So I don't think the fact that you're in ICSID is going to change that one way or the other. They might even drag their heels on implementation, once they've been found...in the final appeal that the WTO appellate body has gone through, they'll drag their heels perhaps a little bit. But ICSID isn't a monetary award. If there hadn't been a settlement and the softwood lumber companies had had to continue with the suit, and we had been members of ICSID, and etc., etc., it might have actually been a useful thing. I would like to have had it if I had been representing a softwood producer.
So yes, I think there would have been a benefit--marginal, but a benefit nonetheless.