I've heard of that dialogue, and I think the better way is not just to have dialogue, but to have more cultural exchanges first. That means not only influencing the governments, but also that it's important to influence the professors and students. We need more cultural exchanges--that is, more Canadian intellectuals going to China to dialogue with the intellectuals there, and not only government officials. Many intellectuals also have influence on the government, because the government is now open to listening to the scholars' and professors' points of view. So I think the human rights dialogue should come together with a cultural exchange program. I think that if Canada wants to influence China to become a better government, in good will, then more cultural exchanges are important.
I have been doing cultural exchanges for 14 years. I think it's very important that the professors, scholars, students, and intellectuals have new ideas. All of these new ideas can influence the government. Then later, some of those people become government officials and their minds are more open, because they have heard of something different from the Canadian point of view.
Also, dialogue should not just be limited to one or two times, with just us, the minister, or MPs coming to talk to government officials. It needs more time and a longer period of dialogue, not only on issues, but also on the basic ideology and the basic idea of human rights. I say this because Chinese culture has lasted for 5,000 years, and they don't have this concept of human rights. So it's not so easy just to tell them the values of human rights, that according to the standards of human rights, things are not right. But try to look for some ground from their own culture, and say to them that according to Chinese culture, you also respect human dignity, and later this can become a ground for human rights and a ground for democracy.
I have also written suggestions in this field, and they are very appreciative of the use of Chinese culture to argue for this. I think it is well worth while.