Foreign Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we will begin our meeting with the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Regional Cooperation for Burkina Faso, Minister Yoda.

Welcome, and thank you very much for taking the time out of your schedule. I'll ask you to give us your opening statement, and then we'll go around the room and have some questions and answers. We'll finish up around 12 o'clock, if that is okay.

Minister Yoda, the floor is yours. Welcome. Thank you for being here. We look forward to hearing your remarks.

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Regional Cooperation, National Assembly of Burkina Faso]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

To begin with, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for the warm welcome I and my entire delegation have received since arriving in Canada. I particularly appreciate this opportunity to appear before your distinguished Committee. I will make a very brief opening statement to allow you time to ask questions and make comments. Then, of course, the delegation accompanying me and myself will be available to answer your questions to the best of our ability.

Mr. Chairman, I am here at the invitation of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, to hold discussions with Canadian authorities, with a view to strengthening the meaningful bilateral relations that already exist between our two countries.

I arrived here on the 25th and between the 26th and today, I have had many meetings with Mr. Cannon as well as with parliamentarians and Burkinans here in Canada. I must say that, so far, things have gone very well.

Mr. Chairman, relations between Canada and Burkina Faso go back to the early days following our independence, and have grown stronger with every year. Until 2005, we were on the special list of African countries with which Canada maintained bilateral relations. We entered into a cooperation agreement—2001-2011—which enables Canada to carry out projects in Burkina Faso through official development aid monies amounting to $90 million for the period just mentioned—an amount which has been increased since by some $50 million.

Mr. Chairman, one of Burkina Faso's assets today is good governance, as determined by international public opinion and, naturally, civil society actors in Burkina Faso. We have stable institutions: we have a government, a unicameral Parliament where 10 parties are represented, an independent judiciary, a free press and a civil society which is highly critical of the government. I am sure that you receive reports from both the civil society and the press.

There is also a strong Canadian private sector presence there, it being the top private investor in Burkina, particularly in the mining industry. That private presence is very much appreciated by Burkinans; the companies that operate there abide by the country's laws and regulations.

We have also made significant progress in social areas, such as education and health, but because we are a young country with few resources, we are clearly aware that there is still much to be done, and we are doing our utmost every year to improve things for all of our social partners, so that they can also take action in those areas.

As you know, we are very much engaged in managing peace and security in the sub-region. And our head of State, President Compaoré, is also very involved in peace and security in the sub-region, and even across the region, whether it be Togo, Ivory Coast, Guinea, Niger in 1995 and 1996 in the Sahelo-Saharan strip or in Sudan.

Indeed, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Canadian government for its assistance with the deployment of our battalion in Sudan.

It seems to me—and I will conclude on this point, Mr. Chairman—that it is in Canada's and Burkina Faso's mutual interest to develop their bilateral relations. Why?

Because Burkina Faso is an open country which is resolutely pursuing the path of democracy and working on a daily basis to improve its system.

It is also a country where Canada's private sector, as I mentioned earlier, has major interests. We have almost $800 million worth of private Canadian investments in the mining industry. For many years now, we have enjoyed what we consider to be strong bilateral relations with the Canadian government, although they can certainly be improved, particularly as regards consultation involving international organizations in the area of peace and security, as well as in terms of helping us to enhance development in our social sectors.

Mr. Chairman, my expectations in coming here are that our country, Burkina Faso, and your country, Canada, can forge closer ties in an atmosphere of serenity, commitment and real friendship—in other words, that you present the issues that you feel must be resolved and that we, in turn, ask you the questions that we imagine to be meaningful for both of us, in the interests of our two nations.

Once again, I would like to thank you for your kind hospitality and I naturally am available to take any of your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Yoda.

We'll go to the first round of seven minutes. Then if we have time, which I think we will, we'll start a second round of five minutes for questions and answers.

Dr. Patry, the floor is yours, sir.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us this morning. As you know, I visited your country in 2004, for the Sommet de la Francophonie. I was pleased to be in attendance and I am very proud to have had that opportunity.

You stated at the beginning of your opening statement that you are very satisfied with the work of mining companies, particularly a Montreal company—which shall remain nameless—which is involved in gold mining and is working very effectively with the government.

I would like to ask you about China's role on the African continent. I am interested in the way in which China's approach to bilateral and multilateral relations with African countries differs from Canada's?

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Should I answer immediately?

All right.

I would like to thank you for your question, and especially for the longstanding friendship you have shown to Burkina Faso.

As I said, private Canadian companies are very dynamic in Burkina Faso. We also recognize that in recent years, continental China has made an important breakthrough economically. We currently enjoy trade relations with continental China, but not diplomatic relations. The country we have diplomatic relations with is the Republic of China, or Taiwan. However, we do maintain normal trade relations with continental China. Indeed, we were neighbours when we were on the Security Council, and as such, we would discuss all kinds of issues without that posing any particular problem.

If continental China is now making a major breakthrough in Africa generally, it seems to me it is because of a pragmatic approach which involves making investments of all kinds, particularly in infrastructure and in the social sector, and because it is also trying to facilitate trade between Africa and China. Of course, every country has its own way of doing that, but those are my general comments in response.

I would say it is in the interests of major countries like Canada, the United States and Europe to expand their presence in order to take their rightful position because, as you know, Africa has tremendous potential and is now waking up. And I think that, in future years, it will be induced to play an important role. Naturally, countries that have had long-standing relations with Africa will enjoy reciprocal benefits.

Thank you.

[Glen Pearson, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you. We welcome you and your team. We're all thrilled that you're here today.

Early last year Canada's CIDA program announced that it would no longer keep Burkina Faso as one of its partner countries. At that time a number of ambassadors came here before our committee, including your own ambassador, who was a spokesperson for the group. They said that might be a debilitating thing for Burkina Faso, and they also worried what it meant about the friendship.

How have things been since those cuts were announced? Have you been able to make any other plans to make up for that shortfall as a result of Canada not giving you those funds any more?

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

In fact, CIDA people are not the ones who informed us. I believe it was the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade that decided, for a variety of reasons, to reduce the number of focus countries from 25 to 20, as I recall. In terms of the current list of focus countries, I believe there are seven African countries on the list.

Obviously, in light of the productive and long-standing relations between Burkina Faso and Canada, we felt this did not augur well; in our view, our excellent relations were such that we should have been on the list for three reasons in particular.

As I already said, the primary reason is that the private sector is extremely dynamic; private investments are rising every year. In my opinion, that is an asset that should justify our being on the list. It would mean we could receive the necessary support from the public sector that would allow the private sector to properly fulfill its role.

The second reason is that we regularly hold international consultations through which we are able to provide mutual support. In that regard, we believe we are in a position to support Canada in terms of some of its future ambitions. I am sure you understand my point.

And, as I said, Burkina Faso is also playing a major role in maintaining peace and security in the sub-region. And, for the good of private companies and our ongoing bilateral relations, there must be peace and security. Despite our limited means, we did take action to ensure that the security of some of our partners would not be threatened, or when that security was threatened, to help free the hostages.

We have also established good governance. As you know, we are subject to the APRM. I am sure you have heard about the APRM. It is a group of 28 countries that decided to assess one another and submit to a peer review. We were the eighth country to be reviewed, and the assessment was very positive.

I also referred to our orderly civil society and our free press. So, we had quite a few reasons to think that we would continue to be on that list.

Having said that, I do recognize that, in some social sectors such as education and health, Canada has provided additional resources. Thus funding increased from $10 million to $17 million, which is a considerable increase. However, psychologically speaking, we see our absence from the list as problematic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Before we move on to Madame Deschamps I'd like to welcome the Ambassador of Burkina Faso, Her Excellency Juliette Bonkoungou.

Welcome.

Madame Deschamps.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Yoda, I would like to ask one question about your last sentence. You said that psychologically speaking, you saw this as a problem. Can you explain what you mean by that?

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Although I said “psychologically speaking”, the same obviously applies at the diplomatic and political levels as well. When you are friends with another country and your trade is increasing… I understand Canada's sensitivity to issues such as governance, gender equality and mothers and children, but we believe we have made some progress in those areas. That is why I said that, psychologically speaking, it posed a problem for us: we really did not have a clear understanding of the reason why our country had been removed from the list.

However, I must say that when I met with Canadian authorities, they explained the reasons why the list had been cut back—the idea being to secure more visibility for Canada's initiatives, and that the decision to cut back the list did not mean that Canada was no longer interested in countries that were not on it. That was reassuring to us. However, as I stated at the outset, although the amount of aid in a particular sector was on the rise, we had the impression that not being on the list meant that we would no longer receive the same consideration we had when we were on it.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

An important consideration is the fact that, of 179 countries, Burkina Faso is ranked 176th on the U.N. Human Development Index scale. With that kind of ranking, you clearly still need help in the form of international aid. Since the Canadian government has announced that foreign aid will be frozen starting in 2011, that might have an impact on what you are currently receiving from Canada. And if you receive less aid, that could have a very serious impact on Burkina Faso's development.

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

I said at the beginning that we need the assistance of developed countries. As you know, OECD developed countries pledged to devote 0.7% of their gross domestic product to official development assistance. Thus far, very few countries have achieved that goal. Furthermore, the international community set a number of millennium development goals. The fact is that if official development assistance does not increase enough to allow for the necessary restructuring and investments, it will be difficult to achieve the millennium development goals.

You are right: we are quite a poor country which needs private investments because, under any scenario, they provide value-added and jobs. But we also need official development assistance to ensure that our social systems are strong, and to support axes of development.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That is sort of the purpose of your Canadian tour.

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Exactly.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have one last question.

Last May, Ambassador Bonkoungou, you appeared before the Committee to express concerns with respect to Burkina Faso's removal from CIDA's priority list. You also expressed the fear that Canada's embassy in Burkina Faso could be shut down. We know that embassies in several African countries have been closed and that others certainly will as well. We are expecting further closures. What would be the impact of a decision to close the Canadian embassy in Burkina Faso?

[Her Excellency Juliette Bonkoungou, Ambassador of Burkina Faso to Canada, Embassy of Burkina Faso]

Thank you, Ms. Deschamps.

I did, indeed, represent the entire African group here last May, with a view to making the Committee aware of our concerns and particularly our desire to renew and strengthen our partnership and cooperation with Canada through a certain number of initiatives that we had laid out. As concerns my country, Burkina Faso, in particular, since I have been in Canada, there have been serious threats of closure twice now. The first time, when I first arrived here, I was able, thanks to friends of Burkina and the support of partners, to contact the then political authorities to explain the efforts being made by my country to favourably position itself in Africa, both in terms of democracy and governance promotion, as well as efforts to improve transparency and promotion of sustained and equitable economic development. Based on those explanations, the embassy was maintained.

When there was a change of government, the same arguments came forward with respect to the closure. I began another round of visits and had the privilege, at the time, of meeting with the former Minister, Maxime Bernier. I explained the situation in my country, emphasizing the fact that Burkina Faso is currently the main source of stability in Western Africa. Despite its modest means, as the Minister stated, Burkina Faso is making huge efforts to secure peace in the sub-region, and we believe that Canada's signal is an encouragement to those countries that are currently making an effort, our hope being that those who are doing less will fall in line with those who are putting their all into this.

We really did not understand why Burkina Faso had been relegated to the sidelines particularly because, based on the Human Development Index, we certainly were not in a very good position. We understood that it was this indicator and the fight against poverty that were guiding the desire to establish partnerships. My message was heard, and the embassy was maintained.

I thank Mr. Bernier and the Canadian government, but we are seeking reassurance that this is very much part of the past and that there is an understanding that we cannot do business at a certain level without the appropriate diplomatic support.

As the Minister has probably pointed out, Canada is now the leading private direct foreign investor in our country, with some $800 million in investments each year. Burkina Faso is Canada's third largest mining partner after South Africa and Ghana. We believe the scope of our trade relations and the efforts that are currently being made by the government and people of Burkina Faso to emerge from underdevelopment, warrant an acceptable level of representation. Furthermore, based on the principles that generally guide diplomacy, the closure of an embassy usually occurs as a result of a deterioration in relations, or a sufficiently significant political or diplomatic event that the country decides to close its embassy to signal to the other country that things have to be done differently. That is why we see these as very serious decisions, because they can send the wrong signal.

You know—and the Minister has pointed this out—that Canada and Northern European countries are generally seen as the guardians of the temple with respect to good governance, environmental protection and human rights. So, we would not like that signal to give rise to messages that could be harmful to our country. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Ambassador.

We'll now move over to the government side and Mr. Abbott for seven minutes.

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Mr. Chairman, please excuse me. I just want to say that, when I met with Minister Cannon in Addis-Ababa a few days ago, he assured me that there is no particular problem in terms of maintaining your embassy in Ouagadougou.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Abbott.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Ambassador, thank you very much for joining us here at committee today.

For the edification of the committee, the minister very kindly came to my office yesterday afternoon and I had an opportunity to talk with him. We had a very productive and I think a very fruitful half-hour discussion, and I thank him for that.

We discussed at the time this issue of the bilateral countries of focus, which is an issue of choices, of course, because the government that preceded us had funding relations, believe it or not, with 111 countries. Our feeling was that we could do an awful lot better by giving specific focus to 20 countries. We also are going into key priority areas of food security, children, and sustainable economic growth.

I had an opportunity to explain this to the minister, and I previously had a meeting with her excellency, the ambassador, and we explained this. I think that while I obviously have to respect, and do respect, the appearance--and that is something we discussed. As Minister Yoda has pointed out, in fact the aid from Canada to Burkina Faso has increased from $10 million to $17 million. Therefore, it is not what it appears to be. It is a case of the Canadian government managing their aid, particularly in areas of untying aid and that kind of thing.

I think it would be of value, Minister, if you could give us a bit of a sense.... CIDA has had quite an involvement with Burkina Faso in the area of education. It's my own personal belief that education is one of the most important keys to the future success of developing nations, just as it has been with developed nations.

Could you describe to us what kinds of programs there have been in terms of the use of CIDA--Canadian--funding for education in Burkina Faso?

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Thank you, Parliamentary Secretary.

I stated, right at the outset, when the first question was put to me, that, in actual fact, we are not talking about a reduction in CIDA's activities. When the first question was put to me by the member, I stated that, on the contrary, in some priority areas such as education, there had even been a significant increase in assistance from Canada.

Indeed, the Burkinan government has three social sector priorities: education, health care and matters relating to governance and gender. In those three areas, particularly education, CIDA has made an important contribution in recent years. Indeed, the increased contribution I referred to was due to our actions in the education sector, which is a priority. Having been Minister of Health for six and a half years, I know that Canada, either directly or through its contribution to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, has taken a number of actions that made it possible to fund the health sector.

Also, with respect to good governance, the Canadian government—and I said that here—has supported us, particularly during the 2005 presidential elections. What I said, Mr. Abbott,—and you were kind enough to point out that we had met—is that there was definitely a communication problem. We have to resolve that problem because, we had understood that this was not a positive signal. A country that is making a considerable effort to meet the millennium goals, which has productive relations with respect to private investment and, in addition to all of that, is Canada's friend and uses its own resources, in some cases, to ensure the safety of that country's nationals or to find a way to secure their safety, is not a country that deserves to be left with the impression that its relations have deteriorated to the point where it should no longer be on the list.

You provided an explanation and said that, in fact, this was not a final decision. I believe I was satisfied with the answer you gave me. In terms of information regarding CIDA's education-related activities, I have just provided that to you.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you.

My colleague, Mr. Goldring, has some questions.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Maybe in the next group--

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You're almost out of time, so I'll move over.

Ms. Mathyssen, welcome to the committee. You have the floor for seven minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to your excellency. It's very good to see you here, and I appreciate your sharing your expertise with the committee.

I noted, Excellency Yoda, that you are concerned about the fact that Burkina Faso has been removed from the list of countries that Canada is directing specific aid to, and I wonder if that has changed your feelings with regard to our relationship. As you know, Canada is seeking a Security Council seat. Will you be supporting Canada's efforts to secure that seat, and if we do gain that Security Council seat, what would you like to see from us? What do you expect with regard to that special status as a member of the Security Council?