Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2010

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I would tell you that the document reflects the decision that—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It may well, but you just said that you didn't put the “not” in. I'm assuming your president of CIDA didn't put the “not” in. There's only one other signatory who didn't put the “not” in.

So somehow or another, a “not” was put in after, possibly, all three of you recommended the KAIROS funding.

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

That's not true. As I said—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

How could it not be true?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

—the document reflects the decision of the government. I was entrusted with the responsibility of ensuring that the government's policies are being followed.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Minister, clearly somebody didn't get the memo on the priorities, because clearly Madam Biggs, or the other person who was the signatory, sent the memo up to you...from September through to November. They sent that memo to you, and you sat on it for two months--which is fine; that's not an issue. The issue is that they didn't seem to understand what your priorities were. So they didn't get the memo as to what the priorities were.

I'm not quite sure, but if this reflects government priorities, why is it that the president of CIDA doesn't know what the priorities of the government are?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

The responsibility of the department is to give its best advice to the minister. The minister then has the discretion to make the ultimate decision. As I've indicated, we had discussions with the department regarding this file.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Minister, did—

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I will tell you that I have the utmost confidence in the deputy and executive vice-president and the officers at CIDA. I'm very confident that every time we come to agreement on a final decision, the document will reflect the decision made. However—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

We're not discussing, Madam Minister—

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Well, I'm trying to follow your thing. It's like we're on CSI or it's an investigative forensic thing, asking who put the “not” in. I'd like to know what your issue is.

What is your issue?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Well, it's rather important. We're talking about $7 million for people who have been in a relationship with the government since 1977—

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Right.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

—and what you've just told this committee is that three people signed off on this memo recommending a continuation of that relationship, and you tell me afterwards that you don't know who put the “not” in.

Does it go somewhere else after it goes—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's all the time we have.

Because we have limited time, I'm going to hold everyone to their time today.

We're going to move on to Mr. Dorion.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you.

Madam Minister, ladies and gentlemen, welcome. I do hope that you will continue to shed light on some of the issues that concern us today.

In the form that the minister is supposed to use to approve a project, a form that in effect has become a rejection form since it includes the word “not” before “approved”, we see that...

Ms. Biggs, when you signed this form on September 28, 2009, did you notice if the word “not” was handwritten on the form?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I would just like to be able to say—

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

May I put the question to Ms. Biggs, Mr. Chair?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

But I would like to say something first, if I may, Mr. Chair, before Madam Biggs....

I respect the responsibilities of the committee as well as those of every committee member. The material thing that I think is important here is how is CIDA helping people in developing countries. On the process by which the decisions are made, who signs, etc., it's important that the department always ensures that it gives me its best advice and that the ultimate documentation reflects the decision.

Madam Biggs will now answer your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Go ahead, Mr. Dorion.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Chair, I am being denied my right as a committee member to get an answer from one of the witnesses, in this instance Ms. Biggs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Ms. Biggs, was the word “not” handwritten on the form that you signed on September 28, two months before the minister signed it?

[Margaret Biggs, President, Canadian International Development Agency]

No, it wasn't, sir.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

So then, when you signed the form, you were in fact giving your approval. You were recommending approval, since the form states:

“Recommendation: That you sign below to indicate you approve a contribution of $7,098,756 over four years for the above program.”

So then, on September 28, you were recommending that the minister approve the project.