Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Sure.

China of course had 25% of the world's economy in the 1800s, and the huge growth is unbelievable. The fact that they've taken 400 million people out of abject poverty in the last generation—over the last 30 years—is probably one of the biggest accomplishments in the history of the world. Obviously they still have a long way to go. There are still many people in China who live in abject poverty, particularly in the rural areas in central and western China.

Western economies have had huge challenges: the United States with their significant debt crisis and lagging economy and Europe with its sovereign debt crisis. Japan has had flat growth for almost a decade, in addition to the natural resources and nuclear challenges. If we look at these challenges, increasingly Canada will have to look to new markets. Obviously we are a Pacific country, so the Asia-Pacific region is important, as are Central and South America. So I view our relationship with that region to be very important, not just with China, but with the ASEAN countries as well, and with India, where we're currently looking at a free trade agreement. We have to expand our areas of opportunity. If you're going to have flat growth in much of the west, we obviously have to find new markets for our goods and services.

When you look at the fact that China has surpassed the United States as a customer for softwood lumber, that's a huge accomplishment for Canadian business and for Canadians jobs. So we work pretty hard at that relationship. At the same time, we obviously have serious concerns about human rights. The Prime Minister, myself, and others don't hesitate to raise those issues in our face-to-face discussions with our Chinese counterparts.

On the issue of human trafficking, obviously the exploitation of vulnerable people is a huge concern to us: the fact that they're put on unseaworthy ships, and that there is danger to their health and safety. Then there's obviously a huge concern when they arrive. So we've taken significant efforts to try to combat human smuggling and human trafficking.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

What's been the response from the countries we are dealing with on these issues?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We've had some challenging relationships on this issue. We've also had some great partnerships. Thailand has been very helpful and supportive of Canada, as have Malaysia and Indonesia. So we continue to make great efforts on how we can increase their capacity to be able to combat this as well.

We have put in $2.64 million to strengthen the capacity of the Royal Thai Police and its front-line immigration law enforcement officials to detect and prevent human smuggling. They too have the word “Royal” in front of their police, because it's very popular.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to start a third round. We'll have a chance for probably two, maybe part of a third. So we're going to start over here with Mr. Van Kesteren, we're going to go over to Madame Laverdière, and we may have time to come back to Ms. Grewal for a question or two.

Mr. Van Kesteren, you have five minutes.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Mr. Minister, I'm wondering what the Department of Foreign Affairs is seeing as what is increasingly becoming a fantastic story: the vast discoveries of natural gas. When we look across the world, I know in North America we've been blessed with huge reserves, which could drastically alter the flow of trade. There's a huge reserve, you're well aware, in Cyprus and in Israel, and I understand there's a Russian company that has begun to explore that. I'm wondering how we're looking at that, geopolitically, the whole phenomenon of natural gas. Are we starting to possibly think about where some of our exports need to go and how that will change the whole Middle Eastern geopolitical sphere?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You mentioned the situation in Cyprus. Obviously the Cypriots are deeply concerned about offshore exploration in waters they claim as their territorial waters. They have spoken very passionately about it, most recently at the Commonwealth meeting.

In terms of Canada, we have to diversify our markets. There are great opportunities for us in the Asia-Pacific region, and that's why LNG to the west coast is particularly important.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Then I wanted to also touch a little bit more on what my colleague Ms. Brown was talking about in regard to Africa. Do we see possibly a new direction as far as how we should...? I know that CIDA is not your ministry, but do we see possibly an importance of not necessarily reallocating, but concentrating our efforts—the moneys that are spent to help countries like Africa in abject poverty, which just can't seem to get out of it, and maybe do something along the same lines as the Chinese are doing? It's interesting that a socialist country is using capitalistic means to advance its policies, and we seem to be stuck in something that isn't working. Maybe we have to fine-tune it or something. Are we looking at that?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think you see that in many African countries there has been a quiet success story. It's slow, but you're seeing some improvement on democratic development. You see the economies starting from a small base, but they're growing.

I just met with the foreign minister from Ghana. Their economy is expected to grow by some 11% to 13%, which the OECD says is the highest in the world. You've seen the growth in the economy in Angola, in Ethiopia, in Nigeria, and elsewhere. So it's certainly a positive trend, but obviously there are still significant concerns.

The biggest problem in Africa, in my judgment, is the challenge in Somalia. Al-Shabaab is destabilizing the entire region. It's having a huge negative effect, for example, on Kenya's economy. Their capacity to be able to provide support for 685,000 refugees is significant. Their tourism sector has taken a big hit, because of the piracy off the coast. That's had a huge effect on the economy in the region, and it's been going on for 20 years now. There are some positive steps, but the challenge in dealing with the famine.... Ethiopia was better equipped to deal with the famine within its own borders, but Somalia obviously wasn't.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Maybe we could talk about the piracy for a minute. That's an interesting topic. That's something that has been in the news too. I understand that one of our frigates was there at one point.

Internationally, are we coming to some conclusion? Are we going to have a different approach to the problem of pirates in that region?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think we've got to tackle the problem on land, not just the water. The root causes are deeply concerning. You know our governments always desire to deal with the root causes of crime, and that's particularly important there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move over to Madame Laverdière.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again.

For a clarification on your question, I want to make sure I understand clearly that when you say that Canada condemns all unilateral action regarding the Israeli-Palestinian situation—

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I said unilateral action on either side was unhelpful.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

And that includes Israeli settlements.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

On either side, yes.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Okay, thank you.

On another issue, Minister, I understand that the last time Canada went to negotiations on the arms trade treaty, the only civil society organization that accompanied the delegation was the Canadian Shooting Sports Association. Is this the case?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We could provide a response for you.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Okay, well, that's my current—

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're very supportive of these international negotiations. The only area where we have even a modest amount of concern is that for sportsmen or hunters, if they cross borders, to be able to accommodate them. That's the only issue, though.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Okay.

Canada presented at the last negotiation in this respect and asked for an exemption for sports shooting arms, which is a category of arms that does not exist either in international or Canadian law. What is your plan?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Obviously we are very supportive of the international efforts in this regard. Our only issue is that if you have a sportsman or a hunter who wants to travel, how can we accommodate that small interest? Globally I think it's a pretty minuscule part of the arms trade. Our enemies are people who want to traffic in arms, not sportsmen and duck hunters. So 99.9% we're solidly in agreement with.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

But given the challenge of trying to introduce a category in an international treaty that does not exist either in international or Canadian law, do you have a specific plan regarding that?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

In these discussions we've said we should focus 99.9% of our energy on the problem. With regard to sportsmen, a moose hunter travelling from the United States to Newfoundland isn't the challenge. Someone wanting to export 10,000 machine guns to the Middle East should be the focus of our efforts.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

With regard to the next round of negotiations, as you know, there are a lot of civil society organizations who have been working on that issue, either globally or in the hemisphere. I was a party to some of those negotiations at one point, and I can tell you that these people brought a lot of expertise and knowledge to the Canadian team as a whole.

In the next negotiations, do you intend to bring all sides of civil society, existing expertise and groups that have participated in previous negotiations?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

As I responded, I don't know who was part of that delegation. If you have anyone you think could contribute, I'd be very pleased to receive any suggestions you might have.