Evidence of meeting #16 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was haiti.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cameron Brohman  President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project
Jean-François Tardif  Executive Director, Results Canada
Katy Wright  Director of Campaigns, Results Canada

9:35 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

As far as microfinance is concerned, I've seen a lot of microfinance up close and, certainly, artisans tell us all the time that they're not going to borrow any money unless they have a purchase order. They're not going to go into debt unless they know they can repay that money, because they and their families will simply get further behind.

I think one very important thing to remember is that, just as in our society, you can go out and get a bank loan and do business, but if you can't sell your products and get them to market, you'll end up in debt and be worse off than ever. For us, this points to the fact that along with microfinance—especially for producers who have a product that can find its way into export markets—they need micromarketing as well. Micromarketing is something that Brandaid Project has basically invented, and we're developing that practice.

I forget the second part of what you wanted to understand.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON

It was about the employment it's creating and how that is changing lifestyles for the Haitian people you are involved with.

9:35 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

Let me try to explain the importance of branding, because I think it's often something that we take for granted in our society. It's a word we only assume we know the meaning of.

In an emerging economy context, branding is crucial, because it refers to the issue of intellectual property. I can give you the on-the-ground example in Haiti of Donna Karan, the DKNY brand, a huge global brand. Donna Karan went to Haiti, as Macy's did, and began doing business with very small producers, atelier-level producers, micro-entrepreneurs, or one person who perhaps had three to five employees. What they did, of course, was simply revert to business as usual with large players coming in to small economies and taking advantage of the desperation of those small players' need for any kind of purchase order. So what they did was buy product, had product produced under the Donna Karan brand, or under the Macy's brand....

Brand is something that captures value. That's why people have brands. That's why if you put Nestlé's brand or Tim Hortons' brand on your doughnuts, you will get sued by many, many lawyers and lose a lot of money. The brand protects value. It does the same thing with micro-producers. I'd like to quote a study done by Light Years IP, a major organization in Washington, D.C., which did this work in West Africa. They studied the effect of big branding on small producers in the coffee industry and, I think, in the cacao industry in West Africa. What this study concluded was that small producers were retaining less than 3% of the value at the source, because they sell their coffee to Nestlé, the biggest coffee buyer on earth, and the Nestlé brand captures that value.

This has led to some very interesting developments. Divine Chocolate is a product that was created in partnership with some Europeans and 20,000 cocoa farmers in Ghana in West Africa. Prior to this brand coming into the market, those 20,000 cocoa farmers sold their chocolate to Hershey's. Hershey's has a brand, so Hershey's made the money. Hershey's was then setting the price for cacao, and that was getting lower every year to the point where, like in the coffee business, farmers were harvesting their cacao and losing money, because they had no control over the value chain. They couldn't capture any value at source.

Divine Chocolate came along, a brand that is a 50-50 partnership between some very smart European marketers and the farmers themselves, a co-op of 20,000 cocoa farmers, and they created their own brand. They took it to market. It's highly successful in Europe, and that value returns to the owners of the brand, the cocoa farmers.

This is what Brandaid Project practises. The baseline studies that we've completed for this CIDA project are for four communities, and they're baseline studies at the front end of this project. What we intend to demonstrate is that when we create brands that protect the intellectual property--in this case, designs that artisans originate for products--those products will go into the market under a brand name that those artisans own, and the value captured at source will be something like 20% to 25%. Currently, as I said, it's less than 3%. In some cases it's less than 1%. Of products that are exported, five to ten cents of every dollar stays in Haiti—and that goes for apparel, commodities, mangos, coffee, everything.

So branding is crucial to capture value, and it's crucial also to security in the market and market share.

Am I making myself understood?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

That's good. I'd love to hear more on this, but we're out of time. They're all good discussions.

I'll move over to Ms. Sims for five minutes.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I'll be passing over to Hélène soon.

One of the things that's very clear out in the real world and in this room is that the global fund is hurting, and as a result it isn't able to do its work. Canada made the commitment a year ago, and I think there was an expectation on the part of the global fund that it would be getting money each year. I know that the estimates were just passed last week, but this commitment was made a long time ago. I want to get it on the record that as of yesterday, according to the information we have, the global fund had not received the commitment from Canada of $180 million. It is going to be paid, but it has not been paid yet.

I'll pass it back to Hélène.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. The due date for the global fund money is December 31. Canada is committed to making that payment by then.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I'm so glad to be told that it hasn't been paid yet.

Thank you.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON

It's not due.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

I thought we were talking about private...payments

Madame Laverdière, I'll turn over to you.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to all our witnesses for being here today and for a very interesting presentation.

While listening to the discussions on microcredit, I got the impression at certain points—I may be mistaken—that we were talking about two different realities. Mr. Brohman talked at some length about a type of microcredit that is probably more institutional. He referred to purchase orders, exports, and so on.

Indeed, there is a branch of microcredit that may be more traditional, such as the one I saw in Africa and with regard to which Mr. Tardif was saying that they had to reach the poorest of the poor. This is microcredit that seems much less based on concepts such as acquiring market share, exports and purchase orders. In a small community, the purpose is to be able to buy what you need to make fabric and sell it to your neighbours.

Am I mistaken in saying that we must make a distinction between these two approaches?

9:45 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

You're not wrong. I thought I mentioned that the producers we deal with are the ones who have products that have a chance of being exported. I couldn't agree more that rural women, especially, need a little credit help to buy supplies for their small businesses. I think it's indispensable for that.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

I also listened with a great deal of interest to the Results Canada presentation concerning the fact that...

I'll switch to English. I feel sorry for the translators; I do that once in a while. Sometimes my vocabulary is better in English than French.

The public sector is better equipped to provide public goods such as education. I think you mentioned a few studies on the subject, and I would like you to expand on this.

9:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Results Canada

Jean-François Tardif

I am just going to say that the theory about public goods is very simple: Who benefits from a population free of contagious diseases? Well, we all benefit, so it's not a private good to have a world free of disease, but it's actually all of us who benefit. So it's not a private investor who will be able to capture a private value out of this. That's why public authorities are definitely better positioned because they represent the public interest.

That being said, I think we all know here that we wouldn't want to have our education or our health services depend on whether Inco, in our mining town, had a good year or a bad year, or whether we just figure or don't figure in their branding plan for that moment. It just doesn't work. So it is important that we have this really important backbone of health systems. And I think most organizations and most countries agree on this. The United States still believes a lot in the private sector backbone, but I don't think they have a track record that really inspires that much confidence in that area.

So, overall, we would say it's not subject to debate. The real question is this: Can the private sector help in some of the delivery there? Can it assist in some of the funding mechanisms, etc.? There are innovative financing mechanisms, for instance, where governments can issue bonds to pay later, and offer some prices through advance market commitments. The private sector can help in marketing those bonds in the future and participating in branding exercises. I think it's those types of partnerships that we need to look at--without a substitution effect but a synergistic effect of sorts.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much.

Mr. Wallace, it's over to you.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's my pleasure to be here this morning. I want to thank our guests for coming.

I'm not normally a part of this committee but I'm happy to be here today. I'm going to focus my questions on the Brandaid Project, just for my understanding. There is a foundation and then there is Brandaid Collections. Is that a separate organization? Or is it the same organization fed from one to the other?

9:45 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

Well, there's a for-profit and a not-for-profit. It's a hybrid model.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

So the collection side is for profit?

9:45 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

Yes, it is.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

So when you are dealing with an artisan in Haiti, are they assigning you some future revenues? Or how does that work?

9:45 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

How does it work? Well, Brandaid Project partners with artisan associations, and these artisan associations produce product to fulfill purchase orders for Brandaid Project, which then exports the products into global markets. It finds markets for them.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

So your organization is the marketing arm that just didn't exist before and you take a cut of whatever they make on that. Is that correct?

9:45 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

We're for fair profits.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Yes, okay.

So what do you need the foundation for?

9:45 a.m.

President and Co-Founder, Brandaid Project

Cameron Brohman

Specifically, when the earthquake hit we did our marketing well. So we got purchase orders and we discovered that the producers no longer had places where they could produce product, that is, workshops. A subsidy was needed. Even the private sector needs to be subsidized in the emerging economies, and there was no government subsidy. So we formed a foundation to raise money to rebuild, to create infrastructure that wasn't there so they could become profitable enterprises.

Brandaid Foundation was formed to raise money from the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund. We raised about $100,000. We rebuilt 10 workshops. They filled the purchase orders.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

The foundation, then, takes donated cash--I don't know about supplies--and then they're helping just your own Brandaid Collections organizations. Or do they help--