Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 8th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I call the meeting to order.

I would like to welcome everybody to meeting number 19 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), as we look at our briefing on the situation in Syria.

With us, we have two directors general from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, Barbara Martin and Robin Dubeau. Thank you both for being here today.

I understand you have some opening remarks, Barbara.

[Barbara Martin, Director General, Middle East and Maghreb Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

I do indeed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll see how far we go. We understand that we may have bells at some point, but I'm optimistic that we can get most of your testimony in today.

Thank you both once again for taking the time to be here today to explain as best you can what is happening on the ground in Syria. We're looking forward to hearing from you. I'll just turn it over to you. We'll hear your opening statement and then we'll go around the room and ask some questions. We'll see how we make out.

Ms. Martin, thank you very much for being here. I turn the floor over to you.

[Barbara Martin]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and honourable members.

We are indeed very pleased to be here to offer you some perspectives on the situation in Syria.

Security conditions in that country have deteriorated in recent months, and we are monitoring the situation hour by hour. We will continue to work with like-minded partners in the region and beyond, in pursuit of a peaceful resolution of the crisis.

If the Tunisian revolution was sparked by the self-immolation of a fruit vendor from Sidi Bouzid, you might say that the Syrian uprising erupted from a paint can in the border town of Daraa. There, 15 children were detained and cruelly tortured for painting anti-regime graffiti on March 6 of last year. The aftermath is a story of spiralling violence. The boys' families marched to the governor's house to demand their release, but they were met with live fire.

Protests ensued, and the Assad regime attempted to quell these by force, but the demonstrations only grew and spread to other cities. Calls for calm that fell upon deaf ears returned as demands for freedom, democracy, and eventually the departure of the Assad regime. Assad has attempted to placate the growing opposition movement with a gradual and belated series of concessions. However, the implementation of these measures has been limited, and Syria's security forces have maintained a crackdown that undermines promises of reform.

Last month, the United Nations pegged the death toll at more than 5,400. While the majority of the opposition remain peaceful, this relentless and brutal repression by the regime is provoking an armed insurrection.

Let me be clear that it is not yet, in our view, a civil war. Indeed, the attacks are mainly guerilla-style hit-and-run attacks, in some cases carried out by civilians who have taken up arms in response to the brutality of the regime rather than by the Free Syrian Army's corps of army defectors.

At times the armed opposition has shown itself capable of holding territory, but only temporarily. Defections are on the increase, although they include primarily low-ranking soldiers, as are attacks on regime-controlled targets. Weapons continue to flow into Syria. Violence has spread to more and more cities, including at times the normally calm Syrian capital of Damascus.

Descent into sectarian civil war is not inevitable, but there is a genuine risk if the violence continues to escalate. Given Syria's fragile sectarian balance, its geopolitical position, the regime's support for terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah, and its reported stockpiles of chemical weapons, this would have significant implications for the stability of both Syria and the broader region.

Some analysts suggest that Syria might attempt to ease regional and domestic pressure by using its influence with Hezbollah to provoke a confrontation with Israel. However, both Hezbollah and Israel have repeatedly affirmed that they have no intention of initiating a confrontation. Instability in Syria could have significant implications for other neighbouring countries like Lebanon, where sectarian divisions are considered to be even greater than in Syria.

The gravity of the crisis is keenly felt by Syria's neighbours, who, along with the Syrian people themselves remain central to any solution. Turkey initially attempted to use its influence as an ally and economic partner to engage Syria diplomatically and to encourage reform. However, Turkey has since become frustrated with the intransigence of the regime. Turkey imposed sanctions on Syria on November 30.

The Arab League is currently at the forefront of efforts to resolve the crisis. Minister Baird has applauded its involvement and views it as a key player in any solution.

The Arab League has charted new ground as both an observer and as a peace broker. Its road map for democratic transition in Syria called on the regime to engage in dialogue with the opposition, leading to the formation of a national unity government under the vice-president. Under the Arab League plan, free and fair elections would be held and a new constitution would be submitted to popular referendum.

The strong stance of the Arab League underlines the unprecedented isolation of a country once described by Egyptian President Nasser as the “beating heart of Arabism”. It has also increased Syria's dependence on Iran, which is currently supplying the regime with arms and security personnel as well as oil and economic assistance. Syria has also become increasingly dependent on Russia, which remains a key supplier of arms to the Assad regime and last weekend obstructed efforts at the Security Council to effectively address this crisis.

As Minister Baird has said, Canada was deeply disappointed by the Security Council's paralysis. “History”, he said, “will judge those whose obstruction serves only to prolong this senseless violence.”

However, it is important to stress that no members of the international community are calling for international military intervention at this time.

Throughout the crisis, Canada has been clear: Assad must go. To this end, we have been working in concert with like-minded partners to further isolate his regime, and to increase the pressure on him to step aside and make way for a democratic transition.

On January 25, Canada imposed its fifth round of sanctions on Syria under the Special Economic Measures Act (SEMA). Measures imposed by Canada to date include: a prohibition on dealings with senior members and supporters of the Assad regime; sanctions on the Syrian petroleum sector; a prohibition on imports from Syria; a prohibition on new investment in Syria; and a prohibition on the export to Syria of software and equipment for telecommunications surveillance.

These sanctions are targeted in nature and are not aimed at the people of Syria. Our sanctions and those of our international partners are already starting to bite. They, along with years of economic mismanagement and, now, almost a full year of popular unrest, are edging Syria closer to an economic crisis, which could erode support for the regime among Syria's influential business community.

In addition to our SEMA sanctions, Canada has banned the export to Syria of all goods and technology subject to export controls. This includes arms and munitions, as well as military, nuclear and strategic items intended for use by the Syrian military, police or other state institutions. Any bilateral cooperation agreements and initiatives have been suspended.

The Canadian government has also been engaging the Syrian opposition. Minister Baird has personally met with representatives of the Syrian National Council, one coalition of opposition groups, on multiple occasions, including a high-level delegation last December.

While we are currently extremely limited in our ability to meet opposition members inside Syria without jeopardizing their safety, Canadian officials maintain contacts with opposition members in exile. We have been encouraging the Syrian opposition to refrain from violence, to overcome internal differences and to develop a concrete plan for a post-Assad Syria that respects the rights of all its citizens, including minorities, and that lives in peace with its neighbours.

The government has also taken unprecedented steps to encourage Canadians in Syria to leave the country while commercial means are still available. That continues to be our advice. From December 15 to January 14 Canada undertook a voluntary evacuation, expediting the processing of travel documents for Canadian citizens and of visas for non-citizen dependent spouses and children. More than 470 requests for expedited services were received. During this period, Canadian officials also placed more than 3,400 calls to Canadians in Syria and their families in Canada and responded to more than 1,580 calls from Canadians.

Although Canadian citizens are under no obligation to inform the government of their movements, more than 300 of the Canadians in contact with DFAIT indicated that they had left Syria. There are 1,550 Canadians in Syria registered with ROCA, the registration of Canadians abroad service, though we believe that the actual number of Canadians in Syria is currently fewer than 5,000. Again, we continue to urge all Canadians in Syria to leave immediately while commercial means remain available.

The safety of Canadian embassy personnel continues to be a top priority. The embassy has reduced its staff since the end of the voluntary evacuation and is now operating at core staff levels. The visa and immigration service, previously the regional hub for citizenship and immigration, has been closed, and its services have been transferred to visa offices in neighbouring countries.

Like-minded embassies are also reducing their staff in response to a deteriorating security situation. Some countries have recalled their heads of mission for consultations, but their embassies remain open.

Even with reduced staff, the Canadian embassy also continues to play a valuable role in monitoring local political, economic, and security conditions. There have been suggestions that Canada should withdraw its ambassador from Damascus in light of the failure of the UN Security Council resolution; at this time we do not believe that a recall would add to the strong statements the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs have made about the situation. We are continuing to monitor the changing situation to ensure that our staff are safe.

Let me not understate it: the situation in Syria is grim, and we are profoundly concerned. The repression of the opposition by the Assad regime is relentless and merciless, and the opposition is increasingly taking up arms in response. In our view, the Arab League transition plan is the best hope for a peaceful solution to the crisis. It deserves our support. It would be an understatement to say that the failure of the Security Council last Saturday in this regard is a disappointment.

We have no illusions. The path ahead for Syrians and Syria's neighbours and the international community will be fraught with challenges; however, we remain committed to maintaining the pressure on the Assad regime and to working with the international community to bring an end to the current crisis.

We would be very happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ms. Martin.

We'll start right away.

I believe we're going to have bells around 4:10, so I think we'll have time for one round anyway.

Let's get started right away.

Go ahead, Madam Laverdière.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for joining us today, Ms. Martin and Mr. Dubeau. This is a very important topic. Without wanting to play politics, I think that all of us here are also very concerned about the situation. I have a whole bunch of questions for you. I will start with the more important ones.

You are talking about working with the Arab League. What can Canada do to support and co-operate with the Arab League in its efforts?

[Barbara Martin]

Thank you very much.

If I may, I'll respond in English.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Yes, of course.

[Barbara Martin]

Canada has very vocally supported the Arab League efforts.

This is a very historic moment, a turning point in the nature of the activity and engagement of the Arab League. It is valuable that a regional organization is taking the lead in trying to find a solution to the current crisis. It has considerable credibility and clout in that respect. The observer mission that the league pulled together was composed of representatives of Arab League member countries, which was also a valuable statement. The United Nations had provided some direct support in, I believe, training some of the observers who were a part of that mission.

At this stage, our support is primarily with respect to encouraging the league in its efforts and offering our vocal support for its plan. Should the league request any particular engagement, certainly we would consider it very seriously.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you. I'm being very brief in my questions because time is so short.

I understand that there are about 12 Canada-based staff left in the embassy and that the embassy is in a relatively secure location in Damascus. I presume we have the specialists in consular affairs and emergency issues...?

[Barbara Martin]

We do. The ambassador is particularly attuned to the consular needs and to the safety of the Canadian staff. Mitigation measures have been put in place, but clearly I can't speak about those publicly. We are continually monitoring the situation closely. There's extensive dialogue between headquarters and the mission at this time.

Robin, I don't know if you wish to add to that.

[Robin Dubeau, Director General, Emergency Management Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

I will answer in French.

Our ambassador there is very proactive about monitoring various sources of information to have a better idea of what is happening on the ground. He has also put in place risk mitigation measures so that the staff is not exposed to violence. He is constantly updating emergency response plans. Our ambassador has shown great leadership in developing plans that have been simulated on a number of occasions, allowing the embassy to respond to any emergencies that could arise.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you very much.

Yes, I have no doubt that the ambassador is doing an outstanding job. From experience, I know experts who are not ambassadors and who usually go from one hot spot in the world to another. Their expertise in managing those types of situations is quite extraordinary. I obviously have every confidence in what the department can do.

To conclude,

perhaps the $100 million dollar question is, what next? Where do we go from there? Do we go back to the UN and try again at the UN?

I know you can't give any details, but without mentioning countries and to the extent you can talk about it, who are our main partners? I'm thinking of the U.S., the U.K., France, and so on. What are they thinking of or seeing as potential next steps?

[Barbara Martin]

That is the $100 million dollar question, and it's a very difficult one to answer without breaking confidences.

There is a considerable amount of activity behind the scenes, with talk between those who supported the Arab League plan and were disappointed by the outcome of the UN Security Council resolution, and there is an effort under way to try to find ways to support the Arab League concretely, but those are, at this stage, very preliminary discussions.

If I might add this in response to your previous question, when I said there was dialogue back and forth between the embassy and headquarters, Minister Baird himself spoke with the ambassador just yesterday to review the security situation and the safety of the Canadians in Damascus at this time. He also thanked them for the extraordinary work they've have been doing under extremely difficult conditions.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I have one last point. How much are we monitoring and what do we know about arms transfers from Russia to Syria?

I'm sorry again for my very brief question. Please don't think this is rude. It's because I want to hear you as much as possible.

[Barbara Martin]

We are aware that there are arms transfers. Exactly how much is again is difficult to say in a public forum. I regret that.

We are concerned sufficiently to have raised our concerns about Syria with the Russians through a démarche by our embassy in Moscow. I think many others in the international community are equally concerned about that particular situation.

Syria itself indeed is becoming increasingly isolated from its neighbours and from the international community. Its friends are narrowing considerably. Our hope is that people will be persuaded that the extent of the repression and the violence in Syria is insupportable and that it is time to stop these arms transfers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move over to Mr. Dechert. Sir, you have seven minutes.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Martin, for your report here today.

Do you know if the Prime Minister has had an opportunity to raise the issue of Syria with the Chinese government in Beijing during his visit there?

[Barbara Martin]

I don't know.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

My understanding is that he has, and that he has made clear Canada's position on China's vote at the UN Security Council.

We are also aware of the recent decision the U.S. made to suspend operations at their embassy in Syria and to bring their ambassador back for consultations. I'm wondering if you could provide the committee with some context as to what led specifically to that decision by the United States, and in diplomatic terms, whether this means that the U.S. has suspended all diplomatic relations with Syria?

[Barbara Martin]

I'll answer the easy part of the question first: no, the U.S. has not suspended its diplomatic relations. It has simply closed its embassy at this time.

It has been reported in the media that the reasons for closing the embassy were related to the security situation in Damascus, which was particular to the U.S. embassy and to certain threats they felt they were exposed to; the media also reported that the Syrian regime could not give assurances that it would be able to provide sufficient security for the embassy, so the closure of the American embassy was based on a rationale that applies to the particular U.S. situation in Damascus.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you.

In your remarks, you referenced Syria's dependence on Iran, which of course is supplying arms and security personnel to the Assad regime. The Prime Minister has been unequivocal in his position that Iran poses the greatest threat to global peace and security.

How concerning is this, and how has the government concurrently been applying pressure on the Iranian regime?

[Barbara Martin]

Iran is a concern to Canada for three reasons. One is the serious human rights violations and the repression of any kind of political dissent within the regime. The second is the impact that Iran is having regionally through its support of Hamas and Hezbollah, which is destabilizing in Syria itself and also in Lebanon. It poses a threat to Israel as a consequence. Only just this week, President Ahmadinejad said that Israel is a cancer that must be cut out.

However, the primary concern is about Iran's nuclear activities and its unwillingness to be transparent with the international community about what it is actually doing. It claims those activities are for peaceful purposes, but the IAEA report in November detailed evidence that there were linkages between its nuclear activities and its military activities, which then raised very serious doubts.

It is actively enriching uranium to the level of 20%, which is not sufficient to build a nuclear bomb—you need 90% enriched uranium to do that--but the process to take it to 90% once it has reached 20% is quite quick. They have sufficient uranium for approximately four bombs. This is extremely concerning.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to share the rest of my time with Ms. Brown.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Martin, you've touched on something I'm very interested in, which is the threat to Israel.

Given the instability in Syria and their dependence on Iran for their arms--and oil too, I think--I wonder if you could comment on the oil coming in. What is their level of dependence on oil from Iran, and can you expand any more on the threat to Israel and what that looks like in the geopolitical sense?