Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2012

[John Kur, Director General, Europe and Eurasia Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Thank you very much.

Indeed, the 27 member states of the European Union are ones in which we have focused a lot of attention in developing and maintaining a high degree of bilateral relations, regular contact, commercial relations, and investment relations, but you're absolutely right. Various countries will be acceding to the European Union in the near future. I'm thinking, as an example, that this summer Croatia will become the next member of the EU. Of course, the EU itself has various agreements with its neighbouring countries. I'm thinking of Turkey in this sense. There are both political and economic ties, and of course the EU has a long-standing dialogue with Russia.

We are very actively engaged, in accord with Canada's priorities, in advancing our interests with non-EU European countries. That is part of my job at the department. We are also very closely engaged with other government agencies and departments that are responsible for their respective areas.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You have one minute.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

If Turkey doesn't come into the EU, we should still have a plan, of course, on an ongoing basis with Turkey. With the size of the population, they're one of the fastest-growing emerging economies.

The other thing, of course, is the importance they have with Syria right now. The opposition party is in Turkey. I know we're talking about the EU, but how is our relationship with Turkey going to be before they come into the fold, if they even come into the fold?

[John Kur]

We've been investing, departmentally, a considerable amount of effort in maintaining and expanding our bilateral relations with Turkey, both in terms of political-level dialogue and in terms of engagement on commercial and economic matters.

Turkey, as you know, is an important G-20 country. It has been an increasingly attractive market for Canadian companies to target, and one in which immediately.... Actually, after taking up his portfolio in Foreign Affairs, Minister Baird has been very active in engaging his Turkish counterpart in high-level political dialogue.

Those are the types of actions that we have been taking and will continue to take to ensure that Canada-Turkey relations are maintained at a high level.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for coming today.

I'm a bit dismayed that opposition members have taken us back to this old debate of old Europe and new Europe, when there are so many different governments in Europe. You have nations like the United Kingdom, which is governed by conservatives, or a coalition currently, and other nations that are governed by labour, so this idea of there being one Europe, I think, is preposterous and just downright silly.

I suppose I could say that if there's a path between Greece, Italy, and Spain on one hand, versus other nations such as Germany, the U.K., the Czech Republic, Poland, and most of Eastern Europe on the other, we'd probably be more in line with the nations that are trying to maintain a strong balance sheet, as opposed to falling into the debt abyss that's currently consuming much of Europe.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Is that a question for me?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That's a statement. I believe I can use my five minutes however I like. It's not for you; it's for the witnesses. I didn't interrupt you.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I can answer it; I didn't know if I should.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Williamson, go ahead. Continue.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I have a question, though. I have a question on a practical matter. How would this kind of partnership resolve or mediate disputes of a practical nature?

For example, the seal hunt is a good example. Some Europeans, as well as some opposition parties, seem to oppose Canada's participation in the seal hunt, but it's an important industry, particularly on the east coast of this country. It is an issue that consumes a lot of heat in Europe. How does this deal matter to everyday Canadians just out there trying to earn a living?

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

Thank you very much.

In fact that is, I think, one of the major outcomes, we hope, for the strategic partnership agreement. That is the importance, again, of early and regular dialogue. We hope that some of the irritants we currently face with the EU could be avoided in the future if we were to meet on a more regular basis and were to meet much earlier, before these sorts of minor irritants took on a life of their own and became much more public. We are trying to build that into the strategic partnership, so that these disagreements or differences would be based on really factual evidence. That's the position we're taking as we move into this: that we should use this opportunity to really not only deepen but improve that dialogue.

I can't say it will resolve all issues. We have the same sorts of irritants with our other trading partner, the United States, as well, but we could hopefully improve the record in future with this instrument.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Kur, do you have any comments?

How much time to I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You have two minutes.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Tell me about the governing structure, just from an educational point of view.

I think it was Kissinger who said, “Sure, I'll call Europe; just tell me who to phone.” It's always a challenge when you're dealing with a quasi-state that is so independent. How does the nation-to-continent relationship work? Is it through Brussels, or are we effectively dealing with 27 different nations?

[John Kur]

Thank you very much for that excellent question. It's one that we've had to grapple with following the adoption in Europe of the Lisbon Treaty, because the treaty created a number of new institutions in the European Union and also various roles for new players within the EU structures.

From a Canadian perspective, we have to remain engaged with both Brussels and the EU leaders and institutions as well as with, essentially, every member state of the 27 as and when required. We've seen this necessity on various different issues. If the European Union is moving forward on an issue under its own competence, our colleagues from our embassy in Brussels, who are accredited to the European Union, will take the lead on ensuring that Canada's position on a particular file is well understood and well articulated at the EU level, and by coordinating both with our headquarters and with our other colleagues stationed in EU member states, they will ensure that Canada's position is also properly articulated to the member states. We found that you can't approach it from one way or the other, but that you must approach it as both a member state and at an institutional level.

Canada was actually one of the first countries to have a foreign EU summit with EU leaders after the Lisbon Treaty. That was the first opportunity, in May of 2010 in Brussels, for the Prime Minister to sit down with both the president of the European Commission, Mr. Barroso, and the new president of the European Council, Mr. Van Rompuy, to begin relationship-building at that stage. It was also an opportunity, from the vantage point of parliamentarians, to meet for the first time with the president of the European Parliament and to begin engaging in dialogue at that level.

We continue that at the officials level, of course, and as Alex has mentioned, the EU itself now has its new External Action Service, which is their newly formed foreign ministry, and the head of that service is Lady Ashton. That is the main EU interlocutor for Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, but that in no way negates the need for our minister to be in very close contact with member state ministers on an issue-by-issue basis.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, John.

Go ahead, Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you. I didn't want to go to the trouble of calling John on his comment about the opposition parties being opposed to the seal hunt. Suffice it to say that the official opposition is not opposed to the seal hunt, and I think that's pretty clear.

He did raise a good question—I'll give him that—with respect to the seal hunt. It's an issue in these negotiations, because there are member states that are raising it and want to see something done about it.

There's a lot of pressure internally, and there's also a lot of pressure on the environmental issue as it relates to the tar sands. There is quite a bit of pressure within some member states and various bodies there. They're raising this issue and they're concerned about how this is going to be dealt with, so I'd like to ask you to talk to me further about how you're going to deal with the seal hunt issue and the tar sands.

On the Lisbon Treaty issue, complicated it may be, but I'll give the European community and the people within it credit for their thirst for democracy, as they are trying to make sure that the people's representatives actually have a role in some of the important decisions that are made around issues such as international trade.

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

John, if you wouldn't mind, given that the strategic partnership agreement does not deal directly with those two issues, it might be better for you to speak.

[John Kur]

I'll happily offer some comments on both points.

With respect to the seal hunt, I think the Canadian position internationally on this particular issue is well known. It's also well understood, from a Canadian vantage point, that the ban on seal products by the European Union is inconsistent with their international trade obligations. I'm sure this is an issue that has been discussed in the international trade committee on a few occasions.

Of course, as I'm sure you are aware, Canada has launched a WTO challenge to that effect, which is currently ongoing. I think this is a good example, as Alex has mentioned, of an issue on which Canada is of course not hesitant to defend its interests and to make its case in front of, in this case, the World Trade Organization. I think it's a very good example of an issue on which, once we have agreements such as the strategic partnership agreement, there will be an opportunity for early dialogue.

You mentioned the oil sands. That's another example of an issue that we're currently dealing with, using the appropriate channels between Canada and the EU to ensure that the implementing measures that the EU may put in place to implement its fuel quality directive do not discriminate against Canadian oil sands.

Our approach has been very scientifically based. It has been coordinated very closely with Natural Resources Canada, which has the technical and scientific expertise to be able to ensure that Canada's position is very well understood within the EU.

Actually, I'll get back to the previous question on how one articulates a position. This is a perfect example of how Canada, through bilateral channels with key member states and also through multilateral channels with the EU itself in Brussels, is working very hard to advocate for our position in an EU process that is currently unfolding as we speak. We expect the European Union committee to meet later this month on the fuel quality directive to review matters and take decisions, possibly. That's why our engagement has to be at both levels.

I would add one final point. You had mentioned the scope of the Lisbon Treaty. It is absolutely a revolutionary treaty in that sense, and one that was very difficult for the European Union to put in place. You'll recall it took a considerable amount of time and effort to have it ratified in various member countries, but I would absolutely echo your comments about the need for the treaty and the fact that it has now served to update the institutions for the union in a way that reflects its expanded membership and the new realities of this century.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

That's all the time we have. We want to thank our witnesses for being here today. I'm sure if we have any additional questions at some point we can invite you back.

The meeting is adjourned.