Foreign Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2012

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you all for your presentations and comments, which were very interesting. This again highlights that, ahead of election day, well before the actual election day, well before the electoral observation work, there is a whole lot of preparation work that needs to be done. This work is often very crucial, if not more crucial than the preparatory work for the elections.

Another topic has been mentioned a few times today, the matter of an active, healthy and organized civil society that has its own comments on state matters.

We have heard many comments on working with local NGOs in the area of preparing for elections. We have discussed focus groups, foundations, young people and the fact that the media is, for the most part, controlled abroad.

In short, my very broad question is for all of you. If we want to support Ukrainian civil society, which areas do you think would be the most crucial and should be the focus of our energy?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Who would like to take that?

[Valentyn Nalyvaichenko]

Let me start with the NGOs. We support Euro-Atlantic integration. There are many in Ukraine, in different parts of Ukraine from east to west, who believe in this. It's the most popular idea among young people in Ukraine.

All methods and all support should be provided to those NGOs that are fighting corruption, gathering information in the local communities, working on the ground, and demanding that the authorities act to stop corruption at the district level. We must also support those NGOs and youth organizations involved in election activity, in observation activity, and in any legal activity explaining to the common people the law, how to vote, how not to let falsification happen, and all this kind of stuff.

[Borys Tarasyuk]

For many years, Ukrainian civil society was fragmented. A lot of NGOs worked separately without coordinating their activities. Recently, Ukrainian NGOs united under the national platform of the Eastern Partnership. Dozens of different Ukrainian NGOs are acting on this single, national platform.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Sherr.

[James Sherr]

There are Ukrainian NGOs that are expert at monitoring the implementation, or lack of implementation, of Ukraine's own commitments, the commitments of the authorities, in the country. Anything that can be done to strengthen those people, including the important points that Borys Tarasyuk made about visa liberalization, will be extremely important.

Canada is uniquely equipped to help Ukraine counter Russia's aggressive identity politics, including the so-called rewriting and distortion of history. Canada should be strengthening the efforts of objective Ukrainian historians to expand awareness of the country's actual history, and generate unpolitical discussions about historical controversies. Canada can play an absolutely instrumental role there, because of the experience and knowledge that exists in this country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move over to the Conservatives.

Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to ask some follow-up questions.

I know we have been talking about, and concentrating a lot, on the upcoming elections. One of the things that the committee has also seized on here is the concern surrounding the current situation of human rights, whether or not there are independent court processes, and the oppression of the political opposition and of the media. There were some earlier comments about making sure we take sanctions against those who are wrongfully influencing Ukraine. Whether it's individual sanctions against those in Russia—as we've said, the puppets of Putin—or whether or not we're talking about the main players within the Yanukovych regime, and those who are bending the rules to suit their own political and personal needs.

Should Canada be taking stronger action on individuals and also sending strong messages as to the overall agreements we have in place with Ukraine and those we're negotiating, such as a Canadian free trade agreement with Ukraine?

[Valentyn Nalyvaichenko]

Both ways, of course, if you want my opinion.

The most effective and strongest message from Canada and the United States toward our officials—especially those in the government, since they are under really close monitoring by international societies of law enforcement—is fighting money laundering internationally. This may be the crucial contribution from Canadian law enforcement and the Canadian government, and at the same time, of course, from the G-7 and the Canadian perspectives, ask the Ukrainian government for their international obligations on all international agreements.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Does anybody else want to comment on that?

When I was doing election observation as part of the Canada Ukraine Foundation observation mission—Bohdan Onyschuk was here—we presented a report in Kiev, and we noticed the amount of money that is used to influence Ukrainian politics. Not just in advertising and promoting the political leadership, but in buying your way onto the partisan lists. Only the first five or six names are ever published. You never know who has purchased their way to be a deputy. They are buying their way in to be a candidate.

I was hoping that by going to direct representation, by giving each oblast a chance to directly elect their people, that we would be able to remove some of that corruption. You are saying the way the rules are set—I've read the rules and questioned the constitutionality of how those rules are brought into play. Can we go back in time to when the first elections were held where we had direct electoral systems for Parliament and possibly have that as a way to bring back a more western-style democratic system? In the early part of Ukraine's democratic history after independence, there were direct elections of deputies.

[Borys Tarasyuk]

Through our history of 20 years of independence, we used all possible systems of elections. We first used purely the majoritarian system, which was spoiled by the so-called administrative resource, when the local authorities influenced the results of the elections. Parliament then decided to create a mixed system first, that is 50% proportionate and 50% majoritarian. There was a lot of abuse of power in these elections, so then we switched to a purely proportional system. Now the current authorities have decided, for their benefit, it would be better to go back to the mixed system, which is 50-50.

In the Ukrainian realities, whatever system you suggest will be discredited, especially because of the low level of political culture. I would like to be objective, but it seems to me that the representatives of the current authorities, who are in the majority, are the bearers of that bad political culture and practices.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to let Mr. Lamoureux ask a couple of quick questions.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I just have one very short one, and let me just kind of start by saying that I'm hoping to make it out to the Ukraine sometime this year, wanting to be able to get a good experience myself. Winnipeg North is, in essence, built by our Ukrainian community, and it's great to see you here today.

You made reference to 1,500 people from Canada who went to the Ukraine for the last election. I'm sure I could generate enough interest among 1,500 in Winnipeg North.

Are there other ways you would suggest, especially for those from the Ukrainian community, where there's this interest in what's happening in their homeland and they want to be able to participate in some fashion? Are there other ways you would suggest? Maybe it's through the churches, the very strong Ukrainian churches throughout Canada. Are there other ways in which you would suggest members of the Ukrainian community and others might be able to show their support as Ukraine goes through this year of having another election? Could you recommend any for us?

[Borys Tarasyuk]

I dare say that the Ukrainian community in Canada—and not only in Canada, but throughout the world—is well aware of the necessity of trying to help the motherland to be democratic. That's why we can say that because of this factor we witnessed a lot of Ukrainian representatives during the presidential campaign in 2004.

I think it needed the third round to understand in different countries, Canada included, that indeed the elections of 2004 were very dramatic and required a massive presence of those capable of monitoring and who know the language, and this is the Ukrainian diaspora. I dare say that the forthcoming parliamentary elections are going to be of no less significance for the future of Ukraine than the presidential elections of 2004. That's why we need as many international observers, as many representatives of Canadian civil society, as many representatives of the Ukrainian community in Canada, as possible to participate.

[Marcin Swiecicki]

If I can add to this, what I think is very important is to organize the monitoring of this process before the election, and organize it in such a way that those organizations that are monitoring can report all kinds of abuses on the spot, immediately, and make them public, so they are not left alone with their observations, and then nobody cares about what they found out during the election process or during the campaign.

The system must be organized in such in a way that all kinds of abuses from all over the country are reported immediately, they are aired, they are made public, and governments are asking questions—what is happening in this oblast, in another oblast?—immediately, not waiting until after the election.

So the organizing of this system is very important right now as a kind of support to those organizations in the Ukraine that can and want to be involved in monitoring elections.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank our witnesses and also our guests here today for your patience as we worked through a few votes, and to all our colleagues.

Those are all the questions, and once again, I want to thank you very much, all of you, for taking time out of your schedules to be here today.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.