Foreign Affairs Committee on May 7th, 2012

[Stephen Brown]

At the moment, morale is really low. It already was two years ago, but, with the latest cuts, more and more enormously talented people are leaving. CIDA really is losing significant resources. More and more technocrats are being transferred to CIDA in management positions, often senior management. People like that have no experience in development; they think that you manage development like you manage things like Industry Canada or the Treasury Board. But international development is a vocation in itself. In addition, there is the fact that it is the only Canadian body whose main goal is to promote the interests of other countries. The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade promotes Canadian interests, but CIDA works to promote the interests of developing countries. That is often poorly understood. CIDA has a very qualified and committed staff and would like to be able to fulfill its duties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move over to Mr. Dechert for five minutes.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for sharing your information with us here today.

Mr. Brown, if I could, I'll ask you a few questions.

I'm going to read you a list of the countries that CIDA has been focusing on since 2009. Tell me which ones are, in your opinion, middle-income countries: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Ghana, Honduras, Haiti, Indonesia, Mali, Mozambique, South Sudan, Senegal, Tanzania, Vietnam, Zambia. Are any of those—

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

Was that the full list?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

That's about two-thirds of the list.

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

I think you've left off Ukraine, which is a European country and a middle-income country.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

That's right.

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

Indonesia.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I said Indonesia.

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

Okay, but that's a middle-income country.

Colombia.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Yes, Colombia's on the list.

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

Peru.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

All right, but you'd agree that the majority of them are not.

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

Yes. In fact, as I said in response to Madame Laverdière's question, the majority are low-income countries.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay. So it's proper, in your opinion, that CIDA be involved in projects in those countries.

Are you familiar with the project that Rio Tinto and the World University Service of Canada are participating in, in Ghana?

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

I am, insofar as I've been able to obtain information.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay. You're a university professor. I assume you're familiar with the World University Service of Canada.

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

Yes, I am.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You made a comment in your opening remarks that you thought there were ethical issues and that Canada's reputation is at stake. Do you think the World University Service is also risking its reputation by participating in these projects?

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

I do.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Have you mentioned that to the World University Service?

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

I have.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

What was their response?

[Dr. Stephen Brown]

That they're aware of it. In fact, Rosemary McCarney, the head of Plan Canada, which is one of the other NGOs that's receiving money for working with mining companies, has discussed this publicly—that this is a risk, that they're aware of it, and that it's an experiment.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

As I understand it, CIDA provides funding to World University Service, to Plan Canada, to World Vision. These are pretty reputable NGOs that have high ethical standards and do very good work around the world. If they think that dealing with these companies in these particular projects is benefiting the people in those countries, fulfilling the mandate of those NGOs, why would Canada be risking its reputation in partnering with World Vision Canada or Plan Canada or World University Service of Canada?