Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2012

[Nadim Gemayel]

I don't really think it has influenced President Assad. It makes him maybe only more savage and makes for more terror. He doesn't have anything more than using all of his means in order to eliminate all kinds of revolution.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt. We have a short period of time left.

In your opinion, is there a peaceful solution to the conflict in Syria?

[Nadim Gemayel]

Yes. There is only one peaceful solution, which is to remove Bashar al-Assad and the Ba'ath regime.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Is that by peaceful or by violent methods or conflict?

[Nadim Gemayel]

I don't know if you have peaceful means to remove Bashar al-Assad, but it's the only way to get a solution in this country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to switch to Mr. LeBlanc, for seven minutes.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Mr. Gemayel. It is very good of you to give us your time this way. It is very interesting to hear the perspective of someone in your situation.

Like my colleague Mr. Dewar, I was at the summit of La Francophonie in Beirut with former Prime Minister Chrétien, nearly 10 years ago. That was an eye-opening experience for me, and I hope to return to Lebanon. As you know, the Lebanese-Canadian community is very important in our society. It is a privilege to have you with us.

I would like to go back a little to my colleagues' questions. Mr. Dewar asked you earlier to give a brief description of the influence of the conflict in Syria on your country. You referred to that in your comments at the beginning. I would be happy if you would say a little more about the consequences of the violence in this difficult conflict in Syria on Lebanese society and politics. Is the conflict causing concern in the Christian community? Is it causing divides in that community? There are times when it is not easy. How do you think this conflict, specifically, might inflame the situation in your country?

I would also like to go back to Mr. Dechert's last question, which I thought was interesting. Do you have any advice for Canadians? What, exactly, can we do to put an end to the situation in Syria? Do you think there are measures that Canada or the international community could take? Canada could encourage other countries to bring more pressure to bear, or to propose more ways of putting an end to the situation, which everyone thinks is appalling.

So those are my two questions. If you would be so kind as to offer some clarification for us, it would be appreciated.

Thank you again for your testimony.

[Nadim Gemayel]

Certainly. Thank you.

First, I would like to thank you for your kind words and tell you that you will always be welcome in Lebanon.

You asked me whether the conflict in Syria had repercussions for politics and the economy in Lebanon. The fact is that in Lebanon, politics is really divided between pro-Syrians and anti-Syrians, that is, between allies of the Syrian regime and sovereignists. The large majority of the people who support the regime are Hezbollah and its allies in Lebanon. On the other hand, on the sovereignist side, there are all sorts of people, including Saad Hariri, Walid Jumblatt, Kataeb and the Lebanese forces, who want sovereignty for Lebanon.

Certainly, the conflict is extremely difficult in Lebanon. For example, about a year and a half ago, when Saad Hariri was in the government, the Hezbollah members of the government and their allies withdrew from the government in order to make him resign. He did resign, but because they were unable to form a government as they wanted, they resorted to force. They deployed more than 1,000 men in the streets of Beirut, dressed in black, as a show of force and to have the majority overthrown.

That was when Walid Jumblatt and Najib Mikati, the present prime minister, switched sides to form a government along Hezbollah lines. This present government is under the heel of the Syrians. The international community, including the United Nations and the Arab League, is taking no position against the Syrians and the acts of terror and crimes being committed by the Bashar al-Assad regime. There are huge conflicts and tensions between these two camps. On the one side, there are people who are trying to get the country back on the right track, and on the other, there are people who are trying to take total control of the institutions and the country and create an Iran-Syria-Lebanon axis. What we want is to get Lebanon out of the Iran-Syria axis.

And to answer your second question, how to get rid of the regime, I really have no advice to give, but I think what is needed is a little more pressure, not just economic, but also political, on Damascus's allies, and probably especially on the Turks. It has to start with helping the Syrian people, and here I am talking about the humanitarian aspect, not the political aspect. People in that country are dying by the thousands every day. As of today, over 50,000 people have died, if my figures are correct, but there may have been even more. If things continue the same way, the number of deaths will very soon reach 100,000. I believe President Assad is committing actual genocide against his people. There are many things that can be done.

As the international community, you know more than we do what methods can be used. It could mean a no-fly zone or an international deterrent force. Another possibility would be to do exactly as was done in the case of UNIFIL, which was tasked at the time with confirming the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Lebanon. That might at least make it possible to establish a safety zone for the Syrian people, who I can assure you today, have no safety.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's all the time we have.

Ms. Brown, we probably have time for a couple of quick questions. We've got about two or three minutes left.

I'll let you finish.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you very much. I will try to be very quick.

Thank you very much for being here with us this morning. It gives us a slightly different view from somebody who's living in the situation right now. Again, our condolences to those who have lost their lives in your area.

I have two questions and maybe first a statement.

Thank you for what Lebanon is doing to take care of the refugees. As you know, Canada is working with our partners in the Red Cross and with the Red Crescent. We had them here a week ago and we had an update from them. There's a lot of concern over the situation with the refugees who are fleeing Syria.

My question really is this. In Syria about 10% of the population are in control over the majority population of Sunnis, but we have the Christians, the Druze, and the Kurds all in fear for their lives. In fact, back in January, in the United States, Martin Indyk testified and said that “the Alawites fear that if the regime falls, they will be slaughtered—that there is no place for them in a post-Assad, Sunni-dominated Syria”.

We have the same situation in Syria that we saw in Sri Lanka several years ago, where the minority was in fear for their lives if they lost power. Given that Lebanon has so many of the same groups of peoples within its borders, is there any room for Lebanon to help be a part of a peaceful resolution in Syria? Is there room for that discussion? Do you see where any of your leaders could have an impact?

[Nadim Gemayel]

Let me start by clarifying one point. The Christians, the Druze, and all the minorities in Syria are not in power. Those who are in power actually are only the Alawites, the confessional group of Bashar al-Assad. They are controlling all the others. I would like to remind all present today that since the accession to power of the Ba'ath regime, Christians in Syria have diminished from 34% to 12% today. This is the first point.

The second point is that you cannot say that this regime has protected Christians and is willing to protect them, for the only reason that if you see how this regime has acted in Lebanon, how it assassinated all the leaders of minorities, who were very influential in Lebanon—Kamal Jumblatt, the Druze; Bashir Gemayel, the elected Christian president; Rene Muawad, the elected Christian president; Rafik Hariri, the Sunni prime minister. You can see the aim of Syria was to diminish the role of these minorities and not to give them more than really effectively a minority role.

So we cannot think of...[Technical difficulties—Editor]...minorities. [Technical difficulties—Editor]...in Lebanon to be able to gather all this. I don't think Lebanon can play this role. We should start by having Lebanon be a peaceful country with no influence from external communities, from Syria or Iran or even Hezbollah. Then we can think about creating a peaceful state.

For Syria, don't think for one minute that when this regime folds, the minorities will be in danger. They think they are in danger because they haven't known anything else for 40 to 60 years. But when you give them the choice to live in freedom, you can be sure that all the minorities will have a new spirit, a new hope, living in Syria.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Gemayel—

[Nadim Gemayel]

I don't know if I was clear on this point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's good. I realize we cut you off at the beginning. If you have any notes that you want to send us, we'd be happy to distribute them to all the committee members, but I'll leave that to you to decide.

We really appreciate you taking the time to be here with us today. We wish we had more time. We really appreciated the dialogue back and forth.

[Nadim Gemayel]

Thank you very much. I indeed also appreciate that you invited me.

I can try to send you a small memo about what we've said. I didn't write anything down very clearly, but I'll write down a clear memo and send it to you with some opinions about what we've said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Once again, thank you very much for taking the time today. All the best to you.

[Nadim Gemayel]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

To the committee, we're going to take a minute to suspend before we go in camera.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]