Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[Shelagh Grant]

We actually have that. The Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act is probably what the IMO should be basing its position on. It's excellent. It's just a matter of being able to enforce it, to have the ships that can find those in non-compliance. They're small ships. They're small boats. There are attempts, such as people jumping ship. The RCMP can't handle it all.

Yes, we need more coast guard ships. We're behind. Other countries have patrol boats. This is the Canadian studies department in me; I'm always comparing what other people have and what we don't have. We're behind on infrastructure. We're ahead in technology. The U.S. Coast Guard has recommended that the NORDREG system be instituted as the modern touring system in the Bering Sea.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

We see all the cutbacks by the present government on defence. That being said, if all this freight is going to be coming through our waters, we should be able to charge them for tonnage, right? We should have some way of charging for the tonnage to help pay for regulation.

[Shelagh Grant]

You're introducing the Russian model for the Northern Sea Route, basically.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Is that what the Russians do?

[Shelagh Grant]

We also have to have a place where we can meet them on the entrance, and we don't have it. Our centre is Iqaluit, at the end of a long bay. Churchill is our only deep seaport. It's owned by an American company, by the way, as is the rail link from the CNR. Yes, there's a future there, but China's ships and oil were going to come by rail. The oil was going to come by rail. Whether this happens next year is debatable, but it's in the process of taking place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move over to Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and my thanks to all three of you for an interesting presentation.

There was a bit of chuckling in response to what we do when our territories are challenged. I'm curious. All three of you, if planes from Russia or any other country approach our airspace, should we respond by sending planes up and ensuring that these foreign vessels know where our territory starts and ends?

[David Breukelman]

Are you asking me on a personal basis?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I'm asking you as a witness.

[David Breukelman]

Frankly, our land mass is our sovereign territory, and if somebody sends a plane over, it's a form of communication, and we should communicate back. Does that mean we should engage in a dogfight? Not likely. It very rarely happens. But of course we should be capable and willing to respond. I say that from my personal perspective.

[Sara French]

An important point of clarification on the incident being discussed is that the Russians never entered Canadian airspace. They approach Canadian airspace, which triggers our NORAD mechanisms.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Ought we to wait until they've actually come through, or do we enforce that airspace on an ongoing basis?

[Sara French]

I think it's important to continue those processes, but those of us who are involved in questions involving Arctic governance would like to see an understanding that there are several points of cooperation possible with our Russian counterparts. We'd like to see that emphasized in the debate as well.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Sure, but you would agree that if their planes are in the air, we don't leave ours on the ground.

[Sara French]

I'll leave that to NORAD and the people at National Defence.

[Shelagh Grant]

One point of clarification is that the cold war is over and Russia has been cooperating with NATO and the U.S. on joint military exercises in the air. Russian generals were sitting down in the NORAD base in Colorado viewing it on computer. Times have changed. We forget who is our enemy. I don't think we have many enemies. We only have non-Arctic countries who might challenge our right to govern the ocean.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

You made the point earlier that we should be able to monitor cruise ships that come through these passageways. You're kind of mocking the idea that we don't challenge planes, but we challenge cruise ships.

[Shelagh Grant]

No, I'm thinking that if they enter our airspace, they should be challenged.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

All right. That's all the time we have for today.

I want to thank our witnesses once again for great presentations. I thank all my colleagues.

The meeting is adjourned.