Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to start the second round.

We're going to move over to Ms. Grewal for five minutes, please.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Jeffrey, for your time and for your presentation. All of us certainly do appreciate it.

While I think it is quite safe to say that generally there is a lack of understanding about the threats and the vulnerabilities within the various regions of the north, as economic activities increase we need to know more about the possible consequences of industrial accidents and other man-made disasters on land, as well as in the sea, such as organized crime, terrorism, infectious disease outbreaks, and natural disasters up in the north. As someone with considerable expertise in your area, could you please elaborate a bit on the dangers and threats that could arise in the Arctic?

[Anja Jeffrey]

Yes. I think it really comes down to the people aspect: if we do not invest in the people, then I don't think we have a viable Arctic. Who's going to live in Alert if they're not looked after to a certain extent?

[A voice]

Not me.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Anja Jeffrey]

I find it really interesting that the federal government is investing in an Arctic research station, which I think is going to be a good thing, but not in a deep sea water port. Right now, the Yukon is looking to Skagway. They're looking to Alaska.

Infrastructure gaps are one of the biggest threats to the development of the north. Today, industry is putting in most of the infrastructure needed to bring natural resources out. As an example, Agnico-Eagle, which runs the only operating gold mine in Nunavut, the Meadowbank gold mine, has built a 110-kilometre road from Baker up to the mine. I have been on it in a school bus, because I went up to see the mine. Also, they built an airstrip. They put in communications infrastructure. They put in all of the amenities you need when you do mining operations away from communities. They also have a huge corporate social responsibility program because they are as close as they are to Baker.

Now they are going down to Rankin to explore the Meliadine. What I hear from industry is that they'll keep doing it because resource development is the future of the north. Of course, the provincial governments are very grateful for that, but there could be a threat in the sense that if we don't work more closely together—responsible resource development—it's not going to go ahead as quickly and with the ease that I think the federal government really wants.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The Arctic economy is largely dependent on global commodity prices, with mining the key sector in Canadian territories. Diamond mining, for example, is the largest industry in the Northwest Territories. Could you comment on the forecast for future growth in that region?

I understand that finding qualified labour is the number one challenge facing the northern economy. Could you also elaborate on how this is standing in the way of the Arctic region's realizing its economic potential?

[Anja Jeffrey]

Diamond mining in the Northwest Territories is actually on the way down. I was up in the Northwest Territories last week, where I met with the premier and gave a presentation at the Northern Economic Development Practitioners conference. While I was there, the GDP for the Northwest Territories dropped 5.1%.

Gahcho Kué, which De Beers is responsible for, is going to come into operation. But what's going to pull the Northwest Territories along will be metal mining.

The Northwest Territories, out of the three territories, is the one that's experiencing negative growth, in both the economy and in population. Nunavut is experiencing positive growth on both fronts, but it's having a hard time keeping the population. They will not have the labour force capacity. They will not have the readiness to take advantage of economic opportunities.

The Yukon is in a much better state, simply because of the self-government agreements that have been negotiated with the Government of Yukon under the umbrella agreement, as well as what follows from devolution. The Yukon has several hydro and mining projects on the go that are going to carry the territory forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Jeffrey, that's all the time we have for this round, but we still have time for three more rounds.

We're going to go to Mr. Bevington for five minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ms. Jeffrey.

If you understand the mining industry in the Northwest Territories, you understand that a capital investment in the underground shafts at Diavik and Ekati put up our GDP earlier on, and now they've stopped. So that's why GDP has dropped. That's not really a reflection on our economy in the Northwest Territories.

You talked about the population dropping. That was a mistake that Statistics Canada made, and it has been corrected. The population did increase a little.

But during the boom time, from 2000 to 2010, when sometimes we had 10% GDP growth, we experienced a population decline because people couldn't afford to live there, and the policies of the development of the mines were such that a great percentage of the people who worked there came from other parts of Canada.

I think you should review your analysis of the Northwest Territories. Five or six mines are in the chute now—environmental assessment. That's more than the other two territories combined. We are an active place and we have the sophisticated infrastructure to handle mining development. We're experts at it, as a matter of fact. We're experts in many of the northern development fields.

I enjoyed your presentation. I just did a northern development report at the natural resources committee. I think that would be an appropriate place for much of this discussion, because you're talking about national issues. You're talking about housing. I've lived in the north all my life, and I've been to every community in the north and I've been in houses over and over again. I think three elements are key in housing. One of them is ownership. Ownership tends to make the house better. Two is a wood stove. In almost all our northern communities, if you have some way of burning biomass, you're usually more successful in your house. Most of the houses that were built are public houses, where the liability factor has eliminated the possibility of putting this very essential appliance into people's homes. Three is a freezer on the back porch, because we are a hunting and gathering society and we need to have the tools required to do that work. Those are successful homes in the north.

It's not really about the construction. I also disagree with you.... If you talk to the NWT Housing Corporation, they are world experts. We've built houses in Russia. We've built them all over the world. They're excellent homes, but not necessarily for the people who live there because of course they're public housing. They're not designed for private ownership, which allows people the flexibility to design their home so that it matches their lifestyle, so that the sustainability that's available to them in their lifestyle has to be expressed in the home they live in. That's a key. I'll have to look at your report to see if you caught that element of it correctly, as to how housing should be built in the north.

Getting back to this issue of national versus international, what's been the focus of the Arctic Council? The Arctic Council is composed of eight nations and permanent participants. Is the main focus national issues within the countries, or is it the shared issues that are integral to understanding how to take care of our Arctic regions—environment, shipping, fishing, those types of issues? Is that not the focus of the Arctic Council, and has been for many years?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Jeffrey, you have one minute to respond.

[Anja Jeffrey]

Your point is taken, and congratulations on the Deh Cho bridge, a huge accomplishment for the Northwest Territories.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Built with no funds from the federal government.

[Anja Jeffrey]

Built with no funds from the federal government, and it's a source of pride for sure for the Northwest Territories. I can only lament the fact that the write-up of the event in The Globe and Mail called the premier Ed McLeod instead of Bob McLeod, which might have rubbed some people the wrong way.

The Arctic Council is about international issues, but international issues start at home. They're formulated out of domestic policy-making. When the Arctic Council comes together as an intergovernmental forum, yes, they will discuss scientific matters. They will put common positions out there, and they get better and better at it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much. That's all the time we have.

We're going to move over to Mr. Schellenberger for five minutes.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you. I found your presentation quite enlightening.

My background in my previous life was in the construction industry, but I was at the tail end of that. I was in the decorating part of it, so I didn't build much, but we did try to cover up some of the mistakes that were made by the various other trades before.

I do know that years ago automobiles were built to disintegrate in four or five years, so the auto industry could then build more automobiles. I think they found over time that building a quality vehicle that lasted for years ended up being more profitable.

You can have all the regulations you want in building these homes, but you have to have contractors who will follow the regulations. At the same time, you have to have inspectors who aren't corrupt, who will make sure these regulations are followed.

I did know one particular contractor—and he wasn't really a contractor around here—who did some building around here, but he would get contracts to go into the north or to some first nations places to build homes. He built the worst things you could ever build around here, but he got these contracts continually. I think sometimes the lowest bidder isn't necessarily the way to go either.

I'm just wondering how you look at it. Are there qualified people in these areas to build, to put together the homes and to follow those regulations, and are there qualified inspectors to follow that up?

[Anja Jeffrey]

Yes, certainly there are people who are qualified to build these good homes, no doubt about it. I think the country is moving in that direction. There have been enough examples of how the current housing stock is not meeting needs, both on and off reserve, and there are lots of positive examples and experiments out there now, primarily driven by the provinces and the territories. The member mentioned the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation really trying to up the standard on what is being built.

I think there's a legacy, though, that needs to be taken care of. Last I checked, but I'm not quite certain any more, Nunavut did not have qualified inspectors. And you need inspections in order to make sure that things are built the way they're supposed to be built. So there's a capacity issue here that is huge, and breaking that cycle is going to be really vital to bringing all these social determinants up.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

In the communities in the north, are there qualified construction people to do this? It has to all come from the south?

[Anja Jeffrey]

Yes, or it has to be a made-in-the-north solution in a certain sense. The north is extremely human resources and financially constrained, so partnerships are the way to go here—solid partnerships where you are not cutting corners, honest, long-lasting partnerships. Then you need to bring that into the communities, because the communities themselves do not have the capacity to do any of this.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Why I say there should be competent people within those communities who help build and construct these places is that it is sustainable after, if there is a boom and bust in the area. If that job in the mine isn't available any more, maybe they can fix the house or fix the plumbing or fix the electrical, or do some of those types of things that help sustain those jobs in that community.

[Anja Jeffrey]

And it comes back to the point of healthy communities. People want to live in communities where there are schools, where there are amenities, where things look relatively nice, where you're being looked after, and where there is diversification of economic opportunity, for sure.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

I think we have time for Mr. Van Kesteren to start the next round.

We'll give you two or three minutes to ask some questions.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you very much.

I was listening to your presentation, and what you've managed to do—at least I can say personally—is you've allowed us to look through the lens of the northerner. We tend to look through the lens that we live here in the south. It occurred to me that we want to drag the peoples of the north along to a point where we want to be, and they don't necessarily want to go there. Am I wrong? When we talk about development, when we talk about the opportunities, is there an appetite for the people of the north to go in that direction, too? Are we thinking—

[Anja Jeffrey]

Oh yes, absolutely. Northerners want economic opportunity. They want well-paying jobs. Whether they live in one of the capitals or in one of the communities, they want to be contributing members of Canadian society.