Evidence of meeting #60 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anja Jeffrey  Director, Centre for the North, Conference Board of Canada
Bernard Funston  Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission
David J. Scott  Executive Director, Canadian Polar Commission

10 a.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

I'm simply curious about the research on the changing Arctic climate conditions.

Is there an agenda that we can identify to see what research is being proposed for the incredible changes that are taking place in the Arctic, in terms of ice, in terms of weather conditions, those sorts of things? These are the crisis points we're coming to in the Arctic. On the movement of ice, we had two blockages of ice this summer. The weather conditions have changed and the wind directions have changed, especially in Frobisher Bay, where it was packed up with ice.

Is there an Arctic research agenda dealing specifically with Arctic weather and ice conditions?

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

You have about 20 seconds left.

10 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Polar Commission

David J. Scott

The short answer is yes. Those elements are covered not only in the High Arctic Research Station science blueprint, but also by some of the line departments, such as Environment Canada.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much.

We'll turn to Mr. Williamson, sir, for seven minutes.

10 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Thank you, Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here today.

I want to take us back a step. The review we're doing is on Canada's Arctic foreign policy. I appreciate that there must be an awful lot that can be studied on both poles, the changes going on there, the new developments or the new opportunities. I'm curious to know if you feel the work you do influences or impacts on the question of sovereignty in the north, and if so, how?

I guess another question is, how would your research in the north differ from what is done in Antarctica?

10:05 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

Bernard Funston

I'll take the first stab at that.

In terms of whether our work can contribute to sovereignty, it's a tricky question. It's a good question. I'm one of those who is doubtful that sovereignty is what we should be thinking about in terms of technical, legal meanings. Sovereignty is a very interesting proxy in Canadian policy for a whole range of things, domestic and international. There aren't many other Arctic states that actually have sovereignty crises, as we do from time to time. The Norwegians, for example, when they were dealing with the Russians on Svalbard, did not have a sovereignty crisis. They had an issue.

For us, we bundle a lot of things into that word. I would just say that an organization like ours can have a huge impact in ways that are perhaps lateral; we have to think laterally to do them. For example, I have been engaged with some of the Pacific Rim countries—China, Korea, Japan, and Singapore, and of course the U.S. and Russia are in that box—talking about the globalization dimension of the Arctic. I think we have to understand that the Arctic is an area where we have not just climate change occurring, but also globalization. We have seven billion people on the planet at the moment, and it's not just a case that the things that will change the Arctic occur in the Arctic. Most of them, in fact, occur outside of the Arctic. Whether that's pressure for transportation routes, or minerals, or transboundary pollutants, or climate change itself, they're caused by non-Arctic drivers.

Where does that relate to Canada and its borders? I think the bottom line is that this part of the planet is increasingly attractive for the human species, all seven billion of us. So it has to be understood certainly in its physical science dimension—the climate change, the ice regime—but more importantly in its human dimensions. That's why I think we hear so much talk about the Arctic voice in terms of foreign policy. It's not because statecraft is talked about on the streets of Tuktoyaktuk on a daily basis. It's because very often when we deal with the Arctic, we forget that people live there. We tend to look at it as a frontier, which means we're going there to get something, or we're going through to get to southern destination points, or we think of it as a laboratory, or we think of it as a big wilderness, a big park that we can preserve by drawing lines around it. But most importantly, for people like Dennis and me, it's a homeland. It's where people live.

If you want to engage in a thought exercise, think about how a person living in Ottawa would react if northerners were having almost daily, around the planet, conferences on how people in Ottawa should structure their affairs and how they should be more environmentally responsible or more economically responsible. That's the pressure that people of the north feel.

As to sovereignty, I don't think we have, in a legal sense, any burning sovereignty issue. We have a territorial dispute with the U.S. in the Beaufort Sea. We have some issues around Hans Island, which are close to being resolved. But we don't have a sovereignty crisis. As I said, I think one has to look at that word and think of all the proxies it serves.

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Polar Commission

David J. Scott

I would simply add that on a research and knowledge creation front, international collaboration is one way to leverage in knowledge from around the world. When it undertakes investigations in northern Canada, Canada's rules and regulations are followed, the territorial science permitting processes are followed, land-use permits to set up a research camp are followed. I think it is an effective way of demonstrating that Canada has rules and regulations in place, and that jurisdictional responsibilities are adhered to and recognized by those who come from other countries.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Thank you.

I would say, though, Mr. Funston, that you're probably not alone in sometimes feeling that Ottawa is pushing these pressures. I think that's a sense that many communities and towns across this country sometimes feel, that Ottawa is, frankly, meddling too much in some of these approaches to local governments.

10:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

Bernard Funston

It's not just Ottawa. I'm certainly not just blaming Ottawa. That's not the point. It's the whole southern interest recently in the Arctic. In 2005 you might have seen the occasional article on the Arctic. From 2006 on, it's almost every cover of every magazine you could imagine in some form. It's not just driven from national capitals. The interest in it is actually truly global now.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

I would think you would think that's a positive thing, by and large.

10:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

Bernard Funston

I spent the first 30 years of my career asking people to pay attention to the Arctic, and I have to say I'm not sure I should have wished for that quite so vehemently.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Be careful what you wish for.

10:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

Bernard Funston

Absolutely.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Is it Mr. Scott or Professor Scott?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Polar Commission

David J. Scott

“David” is fine.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

David, I'm curious to know, because you referenced the fact that the Arctic is Canadian and you're working with scientists. Do you find that must give you a benefit? Do scientists from other countries often work through your group? The training must be altogether different in the north than it is in the south. You must have much more freedom and mobility here, and more challenges when you're in the Antarctic, for example.

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Polar Commission

David J. Scott

Absolutely, yes. There are mobility challenges in both polar regions. Certainly, the climate in the north in the summer is much more favourable to doing Arctic field work than it is in the southern summer.

I think there are a number of challenges. Access is certainly one of them. The sheer geography, the size of these areas, and the wide range of investigations that need to be accomplished to fully understand these environments, to make sense of that new information, are major challenges.

Prior to joining the commission, as a research scientist and science manager in Natural Resources Canada, I had the opportunity to work collaboratively with many international partners, all of whom hold Canada and the Canadian research enterprise in very high regard. They're always pleased to partner with Canadians, and this often leads to opportunities to work internationally and to share best available knowledge, to learn from one another and move ahead in a global context—the understanding of the functions of our planet and the creatures that inhabit it.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Thank you, Chair.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you very much. That's all the time we have.

We'll move to Mr. Eyking for seven minutes.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Chair, and welcome to our guests.

I'm glad you mentioned that we don't have a sovereignty issue here, because it keeps being brought up and witnesses keep saying it's not a sovereignty issue. The issue is how we manage and put policies in the north in the future.

I just read here that your chair and your boards are appointed by the Prime Minister.

10:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

And you're funded by the federal government mostly?

10:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Are you independent in your decision-making, or do you get directives from the Privy Council? How does it work?

10:10 a.m.

Chairperson, Canadian Polar Commission

Bernard Funston

No, we're very much independent in our decision-making. Obviously, we have a very close connection to the Government of Canada. I think we're called, technically, a departmental corporation. Our board is entirely from outside government. Our staff are all government employees.

No, we're not under any particular directive. The minister, obviously, has an interest in what we do, because he has a general responsibility for the north. I must say, the department has been extremely supportive for the last couple of years as we've tried to resuscitate and revitalize the commission, but it's not a command and control situation.

I think they've given us encouragement to come up with something exciting to lead us into the next era. As I said, we came on stream just as the Arctic was exploding in interest, and we have a very broad cross-section on our board, a very exciting group of people to work with. We keep the minister's office informed about what we're doing and we report through him to Parliament, but it's not, as I said, a command and control operation.