Foreign Affairs Committee on Jan. 31st, 2013

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I have a quick question about the $13 million that has been announced. It's mostly for emergency support, except that there's $1 million that appears to be more like regular programming. I'm not condemning or criticizing the project itself, but the $1 million project for World Vision Canada for hygiene promotion campaigns and sanitation, is it for emergency assistance or is it for more regular funding?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Norton, that's all the time we have, but I'll let you answer the question.

[Leslie Norton]

Okay.

It is in the context of the emergencies to help respond to the displaced who require water and sanitation facilities. It's also for cash transfers so that they're able to eat and purchase the basic needs that they have. It is all emergency funding. Sometimes the definition of emergency in an emergency can be a bit grey but it's basically to meet all the needs of those who have been displaced as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to finish off this round with Mr. Van Kesteren. You have five minutes, please.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you for appearing before us.

My question is for the Foreign Affairs officials.

Of course, you're aware of the government's foreign policy on religious freedom and specifically the rights of religious minorities in the world. Last spring we heard reports that the Islamists had entered Timbuktu and the reports that religious minorities were persecuted.

Can you give us an update on the current situation of religious minorities in Mali? Has the situation become better or worse?

[Kerry Buck]

Thank you. It's a good question. I'll be frank that it's a hard one to evaluate at this point because the situation is so fluid, but I'll say two things.

The international community has been monitoring reports over the last year of some very, very serious abuses committed in the north against the civilian population. Part of it flows from an extremist ideology. Those abuses have been committed against all sorts of different elements, not just the Tuareg population, but also other tribal or ethnic groups in the north. They have also been perpetrated against some of the more secular Muslims in the north. It's more of a split between an extremist ideology, committing abuses in the name of that, and then different religious groups who don't share that ideology, including more moderate Muslims. But yes, some abuses obviously are committed against religious minorities as well.

Also, significant abuses are committed by those groups against women, with many reports of sexual violence and other abuses of the human rights of women and against children.

There are very serious concerns. The international community has been focusing over the last year on these concerns. The UN continues to monitor. I know they've sent in a couple of monitoring missions to gather information. Canada will continue to monitor concerns.

In Geneva this week the situation in Mali was discussed at the Human Rights Council. Canada intervened, and we also joined a Francophonie statement on this. We've made the point about the abuses committed in the north by extremist groups. We've also raised concern about some recent reports that there have been some extrajudicial measures taken by Malian troops. Those reports are starting to emerge. We've been very vocal, as have the international community and the Malian government, that these abuses won't be tolerated.

As I said, the focus has been on the abuses by the extremist groups in the north, because they have been very, very severe.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Prior to the conflict, of course, it was a democratic state. It was a state that was emerging, an infant in that state. Prior to that, what were conditions like in regard to religious freedoms? Had they escalated to a point where...? It's not only in that area but I suppose broadly across the northern Sahara. Had there been an improvement prior to the crisis? If we have this rectified, can we see that perhaps we're moving in the right direction?

[Kerry Buck]

Mali traditionally has been a very tolerant society with a lot of space for different religious minorities and different expressions of religious majorities too. That was the practice and the culture prior to the events in the north.

Part of the rationale for Tuareg uprisings hasn't been primarily religious at all. It's been levels of poverty and a feeling that they have not been sufficiently reflected in the political elite in the south and some ethnic divides as well.

Prior to the events of the past year, it's been quite tolerant. The Tuareg themselves do not have a history of that kind of extremism. It was the Islamist extremist groups who imported the extremist ideology. There are some Malians who form part of those extremist groups, but there are a lot from outside as well. They've imported that extremist ideology and that sense of oppressing the local population for their own extremist religious views.

Over the last year it got worse in Mali. We'll see what happens in the north, but the trend is good to push the extremists out. The fact that the Tuareg have indicated a desire to come back to the table to talk to the Government of Mali is a very important signal.

Across the Sahel, as I indicated previously, and as I think General Vance did too, Islamist extremist groups have become emboldened. They have created some links. Many of them have a very extreme ideology related to Jihad. Some are more extremists for hire; there's a bit of mercenary brigandry going on, but that's the lay of the land.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren. That's all the time we have.

We're going to start our next round, and we'll start with Mrs. Grewal, for five minutes.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for their time and presentations.

As the former colonial power in Mali, the French-led intervention has been kind of like a roller coaster. How are Malians responding to the French troops deployed in Mali who are leading the effort against the al Qaeda linked terrorist network in Mali? Would you have some comments?

[Kerry Buck]

It won't be a long answer because our understanding, from reporting on the ground and from our allies, is that there is a very positive reaction to the French military intervention. They wanted the Islamist extremists pushed out. The French military operation has started that move and has gained some considerable success. We're seeing in the north and in the south considerable support. As the French military was moving up into Kidal, our understanding is that there was not a shot fired. The MNLA, the Tuareg group, had announced that they're in control of Kidal. They welcomed the French troops. That's our understanding.

Again, we're not there in the north right now. I'm hearing this from allies. There's a positive reaction from the Malians and from the international community to the French move.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

It is estimated that about 90% of Malians are Muslims, mostly Sunni or Sufi, and approximately 5% to 8% are Christian. If the French are unsuccessful in beating down al Qaeda linked terrorists, what will this mean for the Christian population living in Mali?

[Kerry Buck]

I wouldn't want to predict what would happen if the French and Malian troops are unsuccessful. They have had some very impressive successes. But we've seen over the past year how bad the human rights situation has been in northern Mali with AQIM and other extremist groups in charge. I won't go into detail, but there are amputations. There are floggings. There's sexual violence committed against women. It's horrific.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

From our consular perspective, what steps have we taken to ensure that Canadians in Mali remain safe? How is the population dispersed in Mali? Is the majority in the south?

Can you give us a rough idea of the current situation in Bamako? Is the situation still relatively calm there?

[Kerry Buck]

I'll pass to my colleague, Pat Malikail, who is the DG for Africa.

[Patricia Malikail, Director General, Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

At the moment, the situation in Bamako in the south is calm, and it has been calm. There are approximately 250 registered Canadians in Mali. We estimate that the total number is about 450. Foreign Affairs has been in touch directly to encourage them to leave the country. Officials both here at headquarters and at Bamako have been monitoring the situation, and we've been advising people regularly about what has been offered. We've offered assistance on travel documents, for example, if people need them.

We've advised for some time against all travel in Mali in the north. That had been there for some time.

At the moment, because the situation has been calm in Bamako, commercial flights have continued to function, so that hasn't been an issue. We have also taken the precaution of relocating some of our dependents and non-essential staff from the embassy. We'll be monitoring that and looking at how to adjust that as we go forward.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Earlier there was a question from Mr. Dechert regarding the elections. Do you think this is a step in the right direction? The Malian government will face resistance and will struggle to hold democratic elections. In your opinion, how successful will Mali be in running democratic elections? Second, how can Canada assist Mali in the battle to hold elections in July this year in a democratic way?

[Kerry Buck]

Mali has a history of being able to hold elections that are free, fair, and credible. It's a fluid situation right now. I know that the international community has already begun talking about the assistance that others will bring to the table as they move towards elections, so I'm hopeful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Harris, sir, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As defence critic, I will focus on the military aspects of Canada's commitment, not the overall military plan of other nations.

Thank you, General Vance, for your presentation. I wasn't here, but I did read it.

It would appear the use of the C-17 is exclusively in relation to French assets and French troops. There were some reports that we were transporting African troops as well. That's not the case, is it?

[MGen Jonathan Vance]

They would not have been reports from us.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

No, I'm talking about media reports. But that's not true.

[MGen Jonathan Vance]

It's only French assets and troops.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

The other aspect of Canada's current involvement has to do with what's being called protecting assets and personnel in Mali. Would that include perhaps people at the airport in Bamako, where we would have the C-17 there for unloading purposes, and our embassy? Are those the only two areas where we would have need for personnel inside Mali?

[MGen Jonathan Vance]

You can understand my broad reluctance to get into too much detail in terms of operational security reasons as to where we are and what we're doing.

I can assure you first of all that we're not involved in any combat operations. Second, we are not doing any force protection at the airport. We do protect our plane, the actual asset itself, when it's on the ground, but we don't have armed troops stationed there at the airport. At a request from DFAIT, we are supporting embassy and consular security.

I just need to leave it at that.