Evidence of meeting #71 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was council.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta, As an Individual
This was at a meeting that was organized by CARC, three years ago, perhaps.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
You talk about a science-policy gap. Are we closing that gap? Have we made some inroads?
Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta, As an Individual
I think we have. Canada hosted the final International Polar Year conference in Montreal last April, and the theme of that was “knowledge to action”. I think that really got people thinking about how you do that. Part of it is a capacity issue. Part of it is a knowledge translation issue.
What's evolved, I think, over the last few years is a model that's becoming more and more accepted by funders and scientists. We start at the beginning stages of initiatives with the co-design, with stakeholders and researchers co-designing projects, implementing, and co-producing the knowledge, and then sharing in the appropriate translation of those results. It's a different model of doing things, but I think we've made progress, yes.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I'm going to assume that other countries have their own scientists who are garnering this kind of knowledge as well. They're looking at the same issues because we're facing the same challenges. Do you share that information amongst the science community? That really is a question for each of you. Is it something that is happening on a regular basis? Is that, in itself, helping to close this science-policy gap? We need to work together.
Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Very quickly, yes. The working groups of the Arctic Council are very effective at collating that information from the Arctic states. This is where the observers and some of the scientific observers to the Arctic Council can provide other global perspectives as well.
I think we're moving in the right direction. It's still challenging, but we're moving in the right way.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you.
Mr. VanderZwaag, on ocean law and governance—this was from the Canadian research chairs paper—you said that:
[Canada's] Oceans Strategy, released in 2002, highlights the need to strengthen ocean governance but is vague on what legal and institutional reforms are required. Even though over 70 percent of ocean pollution comes from land, no global convention on land-based marine pollution has been negotiated.
You had talked about some of that in your remarks. Is it possible for us to get a global...? Do you have hopes we can do that?
Professor of Law, Canada Research Chair in Ocean Law and Governance, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
I think a very straightforward answer would be no, not in the immediate near term. There's a bit of treaty fatigue, I think, internationally.
Land-based pollution is one of these tricky issues, much like climate change. We have so many industries along the coast, so many types of standards that might have to be set, all the way from sewage to factories, that kind of thing.
We do have a global program of action for protection of the marine environment for land-based activities. That is a weak program. It's within UNEP. It's struggled along without really, probably, sufficient funding. That is probably the main way forward. Of course, we do have a regional program of action for the Arctic, in terms of land-based marine pollution activities.
Again, let me just say on this that I think it tends to be a paper exercise, as far as I can see. Canada helped revise that regional plan in 2009, but there is no reporting, that I'm aware of, on how countries actually implement that regional plan. It seems to be on the shelf somewhere. I don't see it discussed much.
Again, this is another issue with the Arctic Council. How do you make the documents that they create living documents that don't just gather dust? I think that's another issue that might be thought about.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
It's another thing that Canada could take forward.
Do I have time, Mr. Chair?
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I have one more question, and this is for Ms. Dey Nuttall.
You had a paper that was part of a larger paper—I didn't download the whole thing—Europe's Northern Dimension: Policies, Cooperation, and Frameworks. In there you talk a little bit about what's going on with the indigenous peoples of the north. One comment that concerned me was that although you say they've been adopted by the European Commission:
...that theme remains on paper. No funds were allocated, no budget allocations were provisioned, everything remained on paper. The only thing is that they continue to extract oil and gas, they expand, but when it comes to indigenous rights and interests, not much has changed.
I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about that statement and how you see that. Canada is obviously very concerned, in our term as chair, that we make things better for people of the north. I wonder if you could give us a little bit of insight into what you see happening there.
Associate Director, Canadian Circumpolar Institute, University of Alberta
Do you mean, in terms of indigenous peoples having access?
Associate Director, Canadian Circumpolar Institute, University of Alberta
Well, it's a general statement about the need to protect indigenous peoples' rights in relation to resource development that will take place in the north and about how some of the benefits of it can be translated to the betterment of the indigenous peoples' economic and sustainable livelihoods.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Ms. Dey Nuttall, I should have backtracked a little bit on that comment. I think it was referring more to people in Russia. I guess my question really is, how is Canada moving forward? Are we making gains in that regard, and are other countries in the polar regions making gains as well for the indigenous people?
Associate Director, Canadian Circumpolar Institute, University of Alberta
Yes, Canada is certainly making gains, and I think Canada also perhaps stands as an example to many other countries. There's still, of course, much work to be done. It is a slow and a gradual process. It will take time, but yes, Canada is making progress gradually.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Ms. Brown.
We're going to move over to Mr. Eyking, sir, for seven minutes.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you, Chair, and I thank the witnesses for being in touch with us here today.
As you know, we have had quite the study going on so far. Sometimes you think you don't hear something new, and then all of a sudden new information is brought forward.
I only have one chance to ask you people questions. I have three or four questions, and if you can keep your answers short, I may be able to get through them all.
My first one is to you, Anita. I can't see you, but I can hear you. Your whole point about Greenland, and your perception that they might be more independent, is interesting. Given Greenland's proximity to us, I think they're going to be more like us in mind than like Europeans, in the long run. We've seen this with the seal hunt and such issues.
I'm from the Atlantic Canada side, so how our fish species will change and how we fish.... Is it going to be a priority for us to have a fisheries agreement with the so-called new Greenland because of how our fish species are going to change? We see at home how mackerel, with one or two degrees of temperature change, moves. Is this going to be one of the priorities we should be looking at with Greenland in the future, a fisheries agreement under which we can work together?
Associate Director, Canadian Circumpolar Institute, University of Alberta
I think definitely that is something that should not be completely set aside. In terms of the future of Greenland—I don't know whether the elections that were held recently have come onto your radar—the new party that is now seeking power is looking at independence from Denmark. But of course, having the financial independence, which is going to be a long haul, will take time.
For the time being, I suppose, a fisheries agreement with Greenland and Denmark together will have to be pushed forward. Certainly, bear in mind that in the long term, Greenland has the potential to be a vital partner in any kinds of future agreements that are made, whether in fisheries or any other area.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you.
My second question is to the other witnesses. It deals more with the U.S.
The black pollutants question was brought up: the Americans are looking at us especially because of the tar ponds. Would this be one of the concerns we'll have at the table in the upcoming Arctic conference? Is it a big contributor? Is it going to be a problem for us?
John.
Senior Advisor, Climate Change, Polar Programme, GRID-Arendal
Are you referring to pipeline construction, or...?
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
No, I'm referring to the emissions as they take the oil out of the sand, and....
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
On a point of order, just for clarification, are you talking about the tar ponds in Nova Scotia or the “tar sands” in...?