Evidence of meeting #78 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jewish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Thank you. I will be pleased to welcome you.
I would like to know how you came to Montreal. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough time to hear your whole story. However, I know you were admitted to McGill University.
How did you manage to leave Iraq and come to Canada? What is your story?
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I'll continue in English, and they can translate.
My brother was lucky to leave in 1963 before the Baath regime closed all exit visas to the Jews. So he was a Canadian, and he applied for us to be reunited. I'm very curious to go into the Canadian archives today and find out how this whole transaction happened, because it took three to four years.
Canada did not have representation in Iraq, so the ambassador would be in Lebanon and he would fly to Iraq and they would call us that day. We would go to the passport office and bring all kinds of documents and they would see us for five minutes. As soon as he would leave, our documents were all shoved in a drawer, never to be heard of.
It took Canada three years of trying to get us out. As I mentioned, there were 17 families that already had children here who were Canadian citizens and were part of this effort.
That's how I got out. Even when we left Iraq, we were not allowed to have a Canadian visa on a passport. I was a refugee. I laughed because I had no citizenship whatsoever. We had to go and wait in Europe until they could give us the Canadian visa on a passport, to be able to fly to Canada. That's when I activated my acceptance to McGill University, because I had been accepted before.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Those are very moving life stories.
I have two questions. First, how many Jewish Iraqi people or descendants are there in Canada now? Second, is there a forum or group where you can meet and share your experiences, which must be very traumatic?
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
I cannot give you the exact number because I don't think we ever tracked that number. I can tell you that we are part of a synagogue in Montreal, a Sephardic synagogue, and there are at least 400 families. Would you agree?
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, but there would be around 1,500 Iraqi Jews probably in Montreal.
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Talking about a forum, we never talked about it, not even to each other. I think we were too busy trying to forge a life for ourselves. We are just starting now to each tell how we escaped. We're just starting to talk about it to each other, because nobody cared how anybody else left. We all cared that we arrived. We didn't care how we arrived. But it's becoming like a thriller now. Each one has a story. We are just starting to collect stories. There is no real structure; we are starting to hear it from each other.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
You were also saying that there are still five people in Iraq who must be very old.
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
One of them was our math teacher in Baghdad, in elementary school, so she must be way over 90 now.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Are you able to be in touch with those five people to see...? No. I see; it's all impossible.
I have one last question. You were also talking about shrines and monuments. I understand from what you're saying that some of them have been preserved up to now, but I presume some have been lost too. How do you see the future, and what can be done to preserve those monuments and shrines?
12:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I am part of an international committee to try to preserve those shrines, because, again, when the U.S. army went into Iraq, they were able to salvage a lot of the parchments, the papers, the documents that were confiscated by Saddam. They found them in a basement. They were flooded and damaged to a large extent, but they brought everything to the U.S., and they have them. They're holding them at the state department, so it's a tug of war. The Iraqi government lays claim to them, and we are trying to salvage them because we feel it's part of our heritage. We don't know; the Iraqi government could put pressure and claim them for themselves any day, so we're trying to repair them and at least have an exhibition to be able to see the contents. These are just the documents.
Going back to the shrines, there is in particular the shrine of the Prophet Ezekiel. As in any other religion, whether Christian or Jewish, the Muslim religion came after, and they literally claimed a church. We know the Church of Constantinople used to be a church, but now it's a mosque. They would automatically erect a mosque on top of every temple or shrine that belonged to another religion. The tomb itself, up to two years ago we had some Iraqi friends who were able to take pictures to show the Hebrew writing on the tomb. We put pressure through articles in international newspapers, and then they stopped trying to deface it.
The population itself believes we were rightfully settled in this country. It's funny, because the first government that came after Saddam wanted to meet with us. I travelled to England to meet with the minister, who told us they wanted us to take care of our shrines, because they think that because we left there is a curse on Iraq and the Iraqis. He said that. That's why we started a committee to try to fulfill that, that we should try to at least take care of the remaining shrines in Iraq.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I've got all kinds of questions, but thank you so much, ladies, for being here and sharing your stories. In our experience, we would associate these kinds of stories with the Second World War. We don't associate them with the modern age and our generation. It's out of our realm.
Ms. Daoud, you quoted “By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down”. This is not the first time that the Jewish people have had this story in Babylon, and it's reprehensible that it's repeated. It really is.
I have three questions. Two of them go together, and perhaps each of you can address them.
First, your story will always be your story, and nobody can take that away, but is there anything that would ever bring closure for you on this? Ms. Shashoua, you talked about frozen assets. The second part of that question is, are you looking for international governments to put pressure on the Iraqi government for repayment, to release some of that to the people who fled? My other question is, because of your own experience, are you concerned that your story is going to be repeated, if not in Iraq, somewhere else, to the same degree?
12:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I definitely think that history repeats itself. We've seen that over and over again, so definitely, to answer that. That was your third question.
The first question, do I myself expect redress for properties confiscated from my family? It's funny because I would say it took 50 years, 60 years.... As I said, my uncle had property in France and finally there was some kind of redress. We received some minimal sum of money from the Germans for property that he had in France. Will we see that? Personally, I have moved on. It is not an issue.
Where I feel very strongly is the question of justice. I feel it's been a unique situation where we suffered the same calamity as the Palestinians suffered of leaving their houses. We know how wrenching and devastating that is, except they have been kept as refugees. They're still forced to live in camps, refugee camps. We moved on. We have a happy ending, but the injustice is the same. We suffered great injustice, and I never hear about it. I only hear about the nakba and the Palestinian refugees. I've never heard anybody say anything about Jewish refugees and what they suffered.
12:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Personally I would be very happy if we could get some of our assets back. We've had a very rough time financially, so why not, if we could? As Gladys said, I'm not counting on it, but I would love it to happen, no matter how small. No matter how small it is, it's going to be very large because both my grandparents were extremely wealthy, and that's the sad part. My parents sat there waiting for something to come and they wasted their lives.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Who do you think should take the leadership on this? Should the Israeli government take the leadership on this? Is there a government that you think should tackle this, or do you think it's the responsibility of the United Nations? Do you have any ideas where that should come from?
12:50 p.m.
As an Individual
As the lady said, I don't think the United Nations would so much as try anything. I really don't know. I know international lawyers or something might, because there's a lot of money there. There is a lot of money in Iraq left by the Jews. It's not pittance. That's why the teacher is still hanging on to it, but once she's gone, I don't know what's going to happen. There is a lot of money left by Iraqi Jews. It's really a sizeable amount.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
