Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2014

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I just want to go to our friends who are here with us today.

I was surprised to hear the strength of your presentation about the Kurds. Were you implying that the Kurds could have stopped ISIS? They left the area. Is your position that they were strong enough militarily that they would have been able to stop that?

[Khalid Haider]

Indeed. Kurds were well known as fighters. They had the opportunity to stop ISIS and to stop this mess from happening. The Kurds could have gone in the dark of the night, around two or three o'clock in the morning, and left these people helpless without telling them. They could have pulled everybody out and taken them to the mountain and still held their ground, but they did not. There was a lot of proof, a lot of documents, such as videos. There was a news reporter, who asked them, “Why are you pulling out of Sinjar? Why are you doing this? You should protect the innocent.” And they said, “Oh no, we don't know; we'll just leave them”. Sometimes they don't even answer the question. Yet they left armoured vehicles in these camps, these compounds, which belonged to the Iraqi army. There were arms rooms full of weapons they left behind and they fled.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Tell us about the Iraqi army's role, then, as well, in the past, and how you see it playing in the future. We've heard testimony here that there needs to be development and training around the professionalization of the Iraqi army in order for this battle to turn the other way.

[Khalid Haider]

Sir, they don't need training. They do need a better plan. In the war that's going on here, it's a lack of coordination. There is no coordination between the sides.

The Kurdish forces and the Iraqi forces are both led within the same framework. They should protect people no matter who they are, despite their identity, their belief, or their tongue, or whatever they are.

They created this mess themselves. There is no need for training. What really needs to be done is better coordination.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Rabbi Bulka, I'd like to ask if you can give us a Jewish perspective or an Israeli perspective on ISIS. We hear about their trying to develop now in Libya and Egypt. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on the development of that organization in that area and how that might impact that. It's a bit of a different area, but an area away from Iraq and Syria.

[Rabbi Reuven Bulka]

Well, I'm not an intelligence expert, and I don't want to even pretend that, but I'm sure there is a sincere interest in somehow or other checking them, and there's no country that has greater experience on it than Israel.

ISIS is a major problem, but with the looting I would also think that they are not the only problem. There's a whole bunch of terrorist organizations, and this is a massive struggle. I don't know that anybody has “the” answer to it. There's probably a combination of things, but certainly for a group like that that has no reverence for life and, in fact, a disdain for life, it's a very difficult battle, but the only way that you can fight them is with strength and firepower to basically remove them. It's as simple as that.

On strategies to do that, the people who have been in this crucible now for quite a long time are the ones who are probably best able to answer that question.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

You talked about the need to do some educating and influence. I'm wondering how far would you suggest the government or our government should go here in order to influence, or maybe call it control, the religious teaching and messaging that's going on out there, and particularly with relation to the Internet.

[Rabbi Reuven Bulka]

That's a critical question. We're looking at the issue in the context of our veneration of the idea of free speech. I don't even think that today we have a clear line that separates freedom of speech from responsibility to respect life. We probably haven't climbed that mountain that remains a continual battle, but I don't think that presently you can necessarily stifle what's happening on the Internet because that's going to be very difficult. What you can do is have messaging of the opposite nature, like the“ Canadian values” type of messaging that should flood the Internet.

If we spend our time trying to control the bad, we'll probably end up not being as successful as putting our energies into spreading good messages that somehow, with our technological know-how, will get all over the place.

In the end there probably is nothing that's going to be a 100% solution, but if we're betting on the future, the best is to invest it in positive messaging that will embrace all Canadians and reach all Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Rabbi.

We're now going to turn over to Mr. Garneau. Sir, seven minutes.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Like many Canadians, I first became aware of the Yazidis this summer when the events occurred on Mount Sinjar, and I had to admit I was learning something new.

I have some questions for everybody. I'll start with Ms. Saeed. Are you the only Yazidi member of Parliament in Iraq or are there others?

[Vian Saeed]

No. We are two members of the Iraqi Parliament who are Yazidi. I am one.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

What is your estimate of how many Yazidis have fled to the Kurdish region of Iraq?

[Vian Saeed]

We don't know the exact number, but I think it is around 400,000 people.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Have any Yazidis managed to remain in the villages where they come from or has everybody fled to the Kurdish region of Iraq?

[Vian Saeed]

Since the beginning, all of the Yazidis have been fleeing to the mountains, to the Kurdistan region, and to the Dohuk. Now we have about 700 Yazidi families in the mountains. Those families are with their men who are fighting ISIS.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Because you are in the Iraqi Parliament, perhaps you could answer this question.

Is the Iraqi government in Baghdad contributing to the humanitarian aid for the refugees who have ended up in northern Iraq? Are they providing funds and humanitarian aid?

[Vian Saeed]

Of the humanitarian aid that is provided to refugees in the Kurdistan region, about 80% of it is all from the Kurdistan regional government. The other 20% is from the Iraqi government.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you. I'd like to turn to Mr. Haider.

I was surprised when you said the the Kurds had betrayed the Yazidis. I did not know that, so that is something new for me. You have said that most aid to the Kurdish region is not reaching Yazidi refugees.

I was there in September with Mr. Dewar. We did not meet Yazidis at that time, but mostly Chaldean Christians who had also fled the region.

When you say that most aid is not reaching Yazidi refugees, it implies that the control of the humanitarian aid is done by the Kurdish government as opposed to non-government organizations, United Nations, and others.

Is there a tight control of humanitarian aid by the Kurdish regional government?

[Khalid Haider]

Yes, sir, there is. Also, there are not only camps in the Kurdistan region, there are a lot of camps in Turkey. There are different spots.

There is an American lady who sent me documents, which I gave to the clerk, about the Turkish government that is trying to control the budget and will not allow the PKK—which is another political party, a Kurdish party in Turkey—to control this budget, and give it fairly and squarely to the Yazidis who have been stranded and who have been moved away from their hometowns.

About the Kurdish region in Iraq, there are a lot of eyewitnesses, not only us. In fact, my colleague has a better explanation than I do. I will let him explain what's going on regarding the lack of humanitarian aid.

[Omar Haider, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International]

I would like to thank everybody for having us here.

Going back to the mountain, like Kahlid said, I lost all of my family. I'm the only one left. Miss Saeed knows them. She's been in our house before.

With the situation on the mountain, I have all my relatives, all my tribe. They're still there. No one has left the mountain. It's not actually 700 families there; there are 1200 families documented, and I'm in contact with them on a daily basis. Even Khalid was there yesterday.

I talked to somebody on the mountain. Some people risk their lives.They went to the abandoned village to get some flour to make some bread, but unfortunately their vehicle got hit with an IED, and they both died. This is not the first time. They are risking their lives to go and get some flour because they're not getting any aid. The stuff that was dropped was worthless; they didn't even use it.

They have newborns who are dying there. They don't have enough shelter there. Basically, they're running out of food. A lot of people are risking their lives to go to the abandoned villages.

On the hostage situation, a lot of them were in Tal Afar, and they moved into Syria, including my family. They were there. I haven't heard from them for a month. I got a call from somebody yesterday that they had moved half of the hostages there, which was 1,500 people, including some of my family. I don't know where the men are, but we know that they took all of the women to Syria.

Thank you.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

You also mentioned that the persecution of Yazidis by Kurds goes back a long time.

Could you elaborate a little on that? The numbers are quite horrendous.

[Khalid Haider]

Sir, if you go back to the history of genocide that happened to the Yazidis, I want to mention the “blind prince”—that's what he was called—of Rawanduz. He was a Kurd who led this campaign against Yazidis.

On August 14, 2007, the same thing happened. History repeated itself. The Kurds took their forces out of these two villages five minutes before they were getting attacked, by al-Qaeda at that time, which is ISIS today, another version of al-Qaeda under another name. Today, in 2014, Kurdish people are pulled out under the dark of the night, and all of these innocents are handed to the criminals, including people who were living among us.

In fact, we have people we are in touch with. They killed over 700 Kurdish people who come from Halabja, and different places, from Sulaymaniyah. Who are they? Don't you think that the Kurdish government is aware of those people leaving and they're calling for jihad or holy war? Don't you think that they are aware of their movement within the Kurdish region? Don't you think that they see their forces in Kurdistan region, arresting 16- to 17-year-old boys and tossing them into jail for no reason? They're persecuting us. It's as obvious as the sunrise. It's pretty obvious. It's pretty clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Mr. Garneau, just to make mention of that document, we will have it translated and it will be sent out to the members. It was just in English

Thank you very much.

That ends the first round. We're going to start the second round, which will be five minutes.

We're going to lead off with Ms. Brown.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses, both by teleconference and here. It's indeed very concerning to the Canadian government to hear of these situations. As you know, we've been very involved from a humanitarian perspective. We started early. We've been one of the largest contributors. The World Food Programme is saying that the people who have committed money are not paying their contributions. I am pleased to tell you that Canada has fully paid the contributions we've made but we continue to look for ways that we can help. Concerning the uneven distribution of the humanitarian assistance that's going in and because we work through our international partners like the World Food Programme, do you have suggestions for us on how aid could get in and be more evenly distributed? We need to see this assistance getting to all the people in need.

You've talked about the number of Yazidi people in the refugee camps. Are they experiencing discrimination within the refugee camps or is the food not getting to the specific camps where the Yazidis happen to be refugees?

Could you give us some insight?

[Khalid Haider]

There has always been discrimination there. I'm not going to lie and say all Kurds are alike. There are great people among them. If I said the Kurds in general are the same then it would be a statement that is 100% wrong, but some Kurdish officials are not clearly conveying this message to both sides. The campgrounds that have been set up for the refugees have been set up on low ground. Any time it rains they will be flooded waist high, and people will be forced out of their tents. There has to be an agency or an office or whatever you name it for the food program. That has to be set up by the United Nations or whoever is going to be there to be aware of all the comings and goings. There are many camps, and many people live in each one of them. To have people drive around this Kurdish region—it's not as if you're driving in downtown Baghdad—it's pretty much aligned with the United Nations. They want to be good friends, to look good. To drive around and see people suffering who need help and question them without the Kurdish authorities behind you and then warn them not to talk.... When you go there they will make sure to send somebody with you to warn them not to say anything. It's just like the former regime, Saddam Hussein's regime. It's another version in a different language.

Thank you.