Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for making time available for me to speak with you briefly.
I asked my office to send over a press article that appeared in 2011, at a time when Australia was passing cluster bomb ratification legislation. I hope you have copies of that because it will save me from going back to it, and I think the arguments there are relevant to what Canada is doing at the present time.
Cluster bombs represent about the most indiscriminate of all weapons. If you want to kill women and children, cluster bombs would be the weapon of choice. If you want a precise military weapon, a cluster bomb is the last thing one would go to, and I can't really believe that in modern warfare cluster bombs are going to be the choice of any civilized power.
The 2008 treaty was a most significant humanitarian treaty, and most allies of the United States have signed on to that treaty—major allies, such as Britain, France, and Germany. The prohibitions in the treaty are emphatic and absolute that cluster bombs should just not be used, but for some reason, the military, especially in the United States, want to keep the power or capacity to use cluster bombs. The United States has not signed on. Of all the NATO powers—I hope it's not an offence to any other country—the United States is the only significant country that has not signed onto the treaty.
The exceptions in the Canadian legislation are substantial and would enable Canadian military forces to use cluster bombs in a much wider range of circumstances if a state not party to the convention, the United States, wanted to use them. But the Canadian exceptions go beyond that because for transport or an activity that would help the United States, there are unprecedented powers in subclause 11(3) of Bill C-6 to help the United States in the use of cluster weapons. The exception is also given to direct or to authorize or to request the use of cluster bombs. I would have thought this really goes to the heart of the convention and undermines it in a major way.
Article 21.3 of the Convention, I would have thought, as other testimony has indicated, gives all the power to the Canadian military, or to the Australian military, to work with the United States, because that's really what we're talking about, that, is whether allies of the United States can continue to work with them. I make the point that Canada, I think in its wisdom—and that's not meant in a critical sense, but in a praiseworthy sense—had the very good sense to keep out of the wars in Vietnam and Iraq, which Australia was involved in with America. That's a mark not only of Canada's judgment but also of its capacity for independence in relation to a close ally. Article 21.3 gives us, or you, all the authority we need to work with the United States were we ever to have the circumstances in which the United States wanted to use cluster weapons in the future.
I can't really conceive of any circumstances in which it makes technical or strategic sense, in any likely war that the United States might be involved in, to use cluster weapons. Where they have been used relatively recently, whether in Lebanon or Kosovo or wherever, it has made no sense and has led to a great many civilian casualties.
One of the things that I believe must concern Canada, Australia, and most countries around the world is that as time has passed and military weapons become more and more precise, we've come to a stage where the greatest number of casualties by far are in fact civilians. Wars used to be fought directly between armies and it was armies who suffered the casualties but now it's not, it's civilians. Keeping cluster weapons on the agenda will only exacerbate that point. In this case in particular, because of the characteristics of the weapons, more children will be killed or maimed in future years.
The exception in New Zealand is probably the best worded piece of legislation, which, I'm sure, has been brought in front of you. Australia went backwards, having listened to the United States' objections, I suppose, to the treaty. With all respect Canada's gone a little further backwards than Australia on this issue.
From my perspective over a long period in public life, it seems to me to be contrary to Canadian tradition because, amongst western powers, Canada has over many decades taken an enlightened view of world affairs as expressed in a degree of independence from the United States over a number of issues. That has not affected the closeness of your relationship and has not affected the capacity of Canada to work cooperatively in support of common objectives. But the only reason for the strength and depth of the amendments seems to me, really, to please the United States, and quite unnecessarily.
I indicated that Canada kept out of Vietnam and Iraq. I think many Australians would argue that although you're closer geographically, the second in charge of American troops throughout the Pacific is in fact an active Australian major general. I don't think we should have him there, but we do. That shows the depth of the integration and interoperability of Australian forces with the United States, which I would believe is just as great as Canada's.
So why not ratify the treaty with a New Zealand kind of exception? I mean, article 21.3 gives all the power a country needs to operate with an ally that's not a state party to the convention. Why go beyond that? Why break down the strength of a very good humanitarian treaty that was a major plus for the world?
I'm sure you have all the background needed, ladies and gentlemen. If you wish to ask questions I'll do my best to answer them.