Foreign Affairs Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

Of course, in the last, let's say, three or four years, the increase of the exodus in Venezuela is maybe more than three million people. Maybe in 2014, some studies that showed one and a half million people emigrated from Venezuela, now we have easily about 4.5 million. People are walking from Caracas to Argentina; it's not just a single emigrant by plane or by car. People are walking from Venezuela and dying on the way to try to reach Colombia, Peru or Ecuador. The impact on the economy of this country and the region is immense.

Colombia has 1.2 million Venezuelans, and the cost per person is about 3,500 euros. So if you do the math, that's going to represent 4 billion euros a year just to try to maintain or help these people in such an economy.

The Latin American economy cannot absorb this kind of migration. That is part of the consequences of the migration. In 90% of the public hospitals of Venezuela they have no medicine, no instruments to help people.

We have to take into consideration that people died in Venezuela because they had no medicine to treat illnesses like AIDS, diabetes, etc. We have new illnesses like malaria or other infectious illnesses that had been eradicated in my country. The impact of the crisis in the last three or four years is just getting worse and worse. That's why people decide to go.

Finally, just to let you know—it was breaking news yesterday—the ex-government in Venezuela is trying to remove the immunity of President Guaidó, maybe to try to put him in prison.

That is the situation in Venezuela.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you.

You outlined in your address 8,000 killed, 30,000 persecuted. The OAS in this report attributes the massive outmigration of Venezuelan citizens to three things: generalized violence, the humanitarian crisis and shortages, but also widespread violation of human rights by the Maduro regime, which they indicate in this report was determined by a panel of experts to constitute crimes against humanity as far back as 2014.

We're getting to a point where we see the Maduro regime, as you said, arrest Mr. Guaidó's chief of staff, try to claim that Mr. Guaidó cannot serve in public office for 15 years. Where does the international community and the concept of responsibility to protect come in? Here we have a situation where thousands are being affected by what has been determined by experts to be crimes against humanity and immense suffering of a people, and essentially paralysis to even get aid in. Do you feel we're approaching circumstances where the responsibility to protect doctrine should be examined to alleviate this suffering and to halt the crimes against humanity?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

The study that you have read is from 2016. We are already in 2019. If you had asked me in 2016 if the responsibility to protect applied in Venezuela, I would have said yes, and I write about it a lot. Three years later, how many people have died in Venezuela because we kept thinking about responsibility to protect as an academic doctrine or a single principle?

The answer is yes, of course, and I don't want to see my country in three more years, one more year, just waiting for more consideration of the situation in Venezuela, for the convenience of the international community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move to MP Saini please.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Good morning, Mr. Viera-Blanco. Thank you very much for coming today and thank you very much for your powerful testimony.

I have three questions. One is based on the legitimacy of what is happening; one is on the humanitarian crisis, especially when you referenced the supreme court of Venezuela; and one is on the geopolitical situation.

Let's start with the legitimacy. There are certain people in Canada and certain political parties that believe that Maduro was the duly elected leader of Venezuela because apparently there were free and fair elections.

There are three principles within your constitution: article 233, article 333 and article 350. Articles 233 and 333 may be debatable, but I'd like to read you article 350 because I think that speaks clearly to the legitimacy of Mr. Guaidó being the interim President. Article 350 says:

The people of Venezuela, true to their republican tradition and their struggle for independence, peace and freedom, shall disown any regime, legislation or authority that violates democratic values, principles and guarantees or encroaches upon human rights.

Based on these three parts of the constitution, do you think that Mr. Guaidó's declaration of being the interim President is legitimate?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

Maybe I have to clarify why this is an illegitimate presidency, the one we have with Mr. Maduro. In 2018, we have to remember that he called for a constituent...which was illegal because under our constitution it is not possible that the president can convoke in a constitution, and then such convocation without a cause has to be ratified by popular vote. That did not happen. That is why the constituent was illegal. But such a legal constituent just called for a presidential election without further terms, in order to do so with many disadvantages to the opposition, with the legality of many parties from the opposition.

So, Mr. Maduro just became president in an illegal and illegitimate election.

When the term expired on January 10, 2019, that was the moment that article 233 applied, which is a succession of the constitutional counsel section in order to create the substitution of the new president when you have the absence of a legitimate president in power. That is why the president of the assembly took the presidency of Venezuela on a legitimate basis. At the end, Mr. Guaidó just applied right now a sequence.

First, we call for a cease of usurpation because it's an usurpation from Mr. Maduro, who is an illegitimate president right now in Venezuela. We call for the application of article 350 on the legitimate right of the people to defend the constitutional democracy. Then we go to the political transition and then call a free election.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I don't think I'll get to all three questions but I'll ask you my final question and this is about the geopolitical situation that's happening in Venezuela right now. I'm sure you read that last week Russia sent 100 military advisers and has been sending humanitarian aid. China also has sent about 65 tonnes of medical supplies.

Right now when we look at the situation, we see heavy investment by China in Venezuela and we see Russian investment that's happening or has happened in Venezuela in the past, where they're trying to recover their investment either through oil or through other means. How is it now that Venezuela is going to make its way forward when there's a Russian involvement and there's a Chinese involvement?

The Chinese involvement is up to $60 million U.S. into Venezuela. They have a lot of involvement in the Venezuelan economy, but you also have Russia now sending military advisers.

Going forward, how will you negotiate two superpowers that are effectively also implicating themselves in the situation in Venezuela?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

I don't know how the international community, which is concerned about human rights in Venezuela and that situation, is going to deal with Russia and China. It's an issue that has to be negotiated. It has to be solved by the international community. But I can tell you something. The first investors that need to change the government in Venezuela because of the devastation and the total paralysis of the country are Russian and Chinese. They are never going to get back the money that they invested in Venezuela with this kind of situation. They need a change.

I don't see that being really an obstacle in order to achieve any kind of change over the table with China and Russia. In my own opinion, China and Russia are an issue that can't be solved over the table.

The problem is how we can resolve the situation. How can the Venezuelan people solve this situation alone? It is in defence of a country and people with no arms, even without the will to proceed in that way. They are a pacific people. That's the real issue.

There's one more thing. It's not investment, it's not any kind of economic or material issue that justifies these kinds of crimes of humanity that are committed in Venezuela. It's no way to justify an investment that good conduct and good trust [Inaudible—Editor] a regime like this.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Before we go to MP Caron, I just want to let members know that there is a vote scheduled for 10:35. As long as it's okay with members around the table, we can go until maybe 25 after or 20 after. Then we'll adjourn at that point and pop upstairs. Is that okay?

MP Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Good morning and welcome, Mr. Viera-Blanco. I believe you're familiar with French, are you not?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

Yes, I understand French.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Fantastic.

I'd like to revisit the issue of humanitarian assistance, which is obviously needed right now. One of the concerns, however, is the politicization of humanitarian assistance. We saw that with the Maduro regime's refusal to allow in aid from the U.S. and members of the Lima Group, and its acceptance of aid from Russia and China. Does Mr. Guaidó think the delivery of aid can be depoliticized? Is depoliticization necessary and appropriate for humanitarian assistance to actually reach Venezuela under the current circumstances?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

From Mr. Guaidó's point of view, humanitarian assistance cannot be politicized. Humanitarian assistance is humanitarian assistance, period, so it shouldn't be politicized whatsoever.

The Maduro regime was responsible for politicizing the delivery of aid. It sought out the involvement or contribution of other institutions in China and Russia in exchange for goodwill in relation to humanitarian aid. That is what you call politicizing.

For Mr. Guaidó, however, there is no politicization, as the top U.S. sites indicate. Those statements are unequivocal about the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela, as supported by the statistics I provided earlier.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

What can Canada do to help neighbouring countries affected by the exodus of refugees? The humanitarian crisis in Venezuela is heavily discussed, but neighbouring countries such as Peru and Columbia are currently under a lot of strain. What can we, as a country, do to help neighbouring countries suffering the consequences of the crisis?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

Canada already has a humanitarian aid policy with respect to Venezuela and Colombia, and is providing economic stimulus to Columbia, Peru and Ecuador. That's a very important measure because the outflow of Venezuelans leaving their country is having a huge economic impact on the country. Clearly, the best thing Canada can do right now to help neighbouring countries like Columbia is to provide economic stimulus since the Maduro regime is blocking aid.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Since I still have a bit of time, I'm going to ask another question.

I see some parallels between the situation in Venezuela and the situation in Syria. The crisis in Venezuela may pose a risk given the involvement of international players—Russia and China, on one end, and the U.S., on the other. Is that something you're concerned about? How do you think those of us on the outside can help bring about a solution that won't lead to what happened in Syria, a more constructive approach given the geopolitical circumstances?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

For the time being, an international coalition has been set up to help uphold the law in Venezuela. That is essential. The international coalition is strategically oriented. Given the economic dynamic between the regime and other countries, it's important that we bring in other countries to be on the right side of history.

That is the policy and strategy of the international coalition and leaders. It's working, but I'm not sure it's enough to bring about a desirable outcome.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I have one last question.

In the event that Mr. Guaidó is recognized as the legitimate president of Venezuela, does he intend to hold elections? If so, how soon will they take place?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

Do you mean a future election?

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Yes.

Mr. Guaidó has already talked about holding democratic elections in Venezuela if he is recognized as Venezuela's legitimate president. If that happens, will he?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

Of course.

In terms of what would happen once the usurpation of power had ceased, a transition government could organize free, fair and transparent elections.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Within what time frame?

[Orlando Viera-Blanco]

I'm not sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

MP Vandenbeld, please.