Foreign Affairs Committee on May 9th, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Welcome, colleagues, to the 140th meeting of the foreign affairs and international development committee.

Today we're marking the seventh annual Iran Accountability Week in the Canadian Parliament.

While our focus during this hearing will be the Iranian regime's deplorable record of human rights abuses, we also take note of the regime's export of violence and terror around the world.

Iran's role as a destabilizing force in the Middle East and specifically its role in propping up the dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad is disturbing, and its state sponsorship of terror has continued to expand. In particular, the activities of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and its proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, have caused immense suffering for millions of people in the Middle East.

Domestically, Iranians continue to be the subject of human rights violations from a malicious regime and a vindictive judicial system. As parliamentarians, we remain steadfast in our call for the freedom of Canadian citizen Maryam Mombeini, who remains in Iran against her will following the unacceptable detention and death of her husband, Canadian Kavous Seyed-Emami.

To begin our hearing, we have two esteemed witnesses before us. By video conference from London, we have Shirin Ebadi, a lawyer, writer and teacher. She received the Nobel Peace Prize for her work to promote democracy and human rights in Iran. We are also joined, in person, by Masih Alinejad. A political activist and journalist, she is a leading advocate for women's rights and equality in Iran. Both Dr. Ebadi and Ms. Alinejad share the distinct experience of having been imprisoned by the Iranian regime for their work.

Dr. Ebadi, we will begin with your statement. We will then proceed to Ms. Alinejad, and then move into questions from the members.

Dr. Ebadi, please begin.

[Dr. Shirin Ebadi, Founder and Chair, Centre for Supporters of Human Rights]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows:]

Honourable members of the Parliament of Canada, I'm grateful for the chance that has been given to me to talk to you. I'm sorry that I couldn't be there in person.

My country, Iran, is now facing two crises. The first one is an economic crisis. The rate of unemployment, according to the government's report, is 35%, but the actual statistics are even higher than that. Workers receive their pay with many months' delay. People come to the streets every day to demand their economic rights, but what is the reason for the economic crisis?

The first reason is the corruption in the government. Unfortunately, this corruption starts at the highest levels of government and comes down to the employees in lower levels. Nothing progresses in Iran unless corrupt money is handed over. The reason is the wrong programs of the government.

For example, I can mention the situation of foreign currencies. Several times there have been wrong programs put in place for foreign currencies and investments that were pointless, especially handing over government organizations and factories at very low prices to relatives and people with close ties to the government. This has caused many of the factories to be closed down.

A third factor is the economic embargo, which has harmed the Iranian people the most. At the same time, the government has taken advantage of the situation because of the economic sanctions and has accumulated unclean money for its own purposes.

Iran is facing a political crisis. This political crisis, in my opinion, started from the beginning of the government in 1979 and slowly spread. The main reason was the ideology of the government, which believes that the revolution has to be exported to other countries. For this reason, exactly two years after the revolution in Iran, we saw that Hezbollah established in Lebanon, and they started interfering in Lebanon.

When the poor people of Syria started the uprising against Bashar al-Assad, Iran immediately came to his aid. There was a lot of money spent in Syria by Iran. After the fall of Saddam, the Iranian government had a lot of influence in Iraq and spent a lot of money in Iraq. The Iranian government has given arms to the Houthis of Yemen and has armed them against Saudi Arabia.

In addition to the Middle East, even in African countries the Iranian government has tried to influence and establish ties with dissidents. For example, Senegal cut its ties with Iran three years ago, although they now have relations again. Morocco cut its ties with Iran because of arms aid to the dissidents. For this reason, in the region and in the world, Iran has been isolated. The number of countries that support Iran is very low and, of course, they have their own political and economic profits. For example, Russia has always supported Iran because it has many advantages in its ties with Iran, as does China, because of its many contracts with Iran.

Iran, among countries in the region, has been completely isolated. Because of these crises, and in the middle of these crises, the people of Iran are always protesting and taking to the streets, but the government always cracks down on them. The only response of the government to the people is threatening them with jail, with imprisonment, and sometimes, execution.

Unfortunately in Iran right now, political prisoners are executed. In the last few years, several people have lost their lives because of their opinions. The exact number of people executed in Iran due to their opinions is not clear, because the government will not announce it, and the families are threatened not to speak about it.

Cracking down on social organizations has been widespread. My organization was closed down. After the office was closed, my colleagues were imprisoned. I would like to mention one of them, Ms. Narges Mohammadi, who spent six years in prison. After completing her sentence, she continued her activities and was arrested again. This time she was sentenced to a total of 16 years in prison, 10 years of which must be served. Right now, she is in the fifth year of her sentence.

I was the founder and one of the main members of this committee. I was head of the Nobel Women's Initiative for women who defend human rights. The main office is located in your city, Ottawa. We have spoken a lot, and I'm very happy that the Government of Canada is paying attention to this. I hope you will be more careful about people who are imprisoned because of their defence of human rights. They need protection and support.

Many Iranian Canadians have been imprisoned. The freedom of these people must be demanded of the Iranian government. Any political ties with the Iranian government must be simultaneous with improvement in the country's human rights situation.

What is the solution? How can we come through these crises?

In my opinion, the first step is to change the constitution of the country. According to the constitution, all powers are given to one person, the supreme leader of the Islamic Republic. He can nullify any law. All of the country's economic and political policies are passed according to his notions. He is selected for life by a select number of high-ranking clergymen. He is not selected by the people. Selecting the supreme leader is like selecting the pope in the Vatican.

In Iran, people have very limited freedom. There is a lot of censorship. People always joke that in Iran there is one freedom and that is the freedom to go to heaven. That means the government is forcing everyone to go to heaven. You don't have the right to go to hell.

Now, imagine writing a book or speaking and what a high price it could have in Iran. Some writers and poets are now in prison in Iran.

Changing the constitution and changing Iran into a democratic, secular republic is up to the people of Iran who are fighting for this purpose. This is a responsibility for all of us.

We have no expectations from other governments. This is our responsibility and people are struggling for it. What we demand and expect from the international community, and especially from Canada, is to not let thieves and corrupt people into your country. Unfortunately, right now, I have to say, some people who have done embezzlements and corruptions and have taken unclean money from Iran have invested it in Canada. For a country with a reputation like Canada's, a democratic country like Canada, it's not good. It's very bad. Because everyone respects the culture of your country and the government of your country, they are surprised at how the law related to money laundering is not being executed in Canada and about why corrupt people who escaped from Iran to Canada are investing millions of dollars in your country. Some of these people have even been convicted in courts in Iran. Even though the courts are not completely fair, their crimes have already been confirmed in the courts in Iran. Why do you let these people into your country?

My demand is that any trade relations or political relations with Iran must be preconditioned to improvements in the situation of human rights in Iran, and especially freedom of the defenders of human rights in Iran, particularly lawyers. At the present time, we have four lawyers in prison who have been defending human rights in Iran. One of them is my close colleague in our NGO, Ms. Nasrin Sotoudeh. She has been sentenced to 33 years on seven counts of political crimes. Ten years of this prison term must be served. Right now, she has spent more than one year in prison.

Because human rights are universal and anything happening in Iran is related to every other part of the world, please pay more attention to the violation of human rights in Iran the same way that you've been doing before.

My special thanks go to the Canadian government. In the past few years they have proposed many resolutions against the regime in Iran to the United Nations General Assembly in regard to human rights violations. That's why I believe I should thank you for your goodwill.

Thank you for listening to my speech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much, Dr. Ebadi.

We will move straight to Masih Alinejad.

If you would also take around 10 minutes or so, and then of course we'll open it up to the members of the committee for some questions for both of the witnesses.

Please go ahead, Ms. Alinejad.

[Masih Alinejad, Journalist and Founder of White Wednesdays Movement, As an Individual]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, thank you for inviting me to the Canadian Parliament to testify about human rights abuse in Iran. How ironic: 15 years ago I got kicked out of the Iranian Parliament just for exposing the corruption. At that time I never thought that I would be in another parliament testifying about what's going on about human rights in my own country.

I want to actually start with one known Iranian Canadian journalist. I'm sure all of you know the tragic tale of the beautiful, amazing and brave woman called Zahra Kazemi. She was an Iranian Canadian photographer. She went to Iran. She was arrested and she was murdered in the hands of Saeed Mortazavi, one of the notorious prosecutors general in Iran. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

At the time I was a political journalist working in Tehran. A year or so later after the death of Zahra Kazemi, I was summoned by Saeed Mortazavi, the same notorious prosecutor. I was very scared because I knew that what happened to Zahra Kazemi could easily happen to me. All journalists in Iran knew of Mortazavi and we did our best to avoid him—all of us.

Saeed Mortazavi was a nightmare not just for the journalists or political activists but for a lot of protestors as well. He didn't get justice punishment. This is what happened in 2009. During the protests, again, after the stolen election, he was in charge of arresting the protestors. There were four protestors who were killed in the hands of Saeed Mortazavi. In 2009 more than 100 people were killed. Thousands of people were arrested.

I myself have interviewed the families of 57 people who were killed in the Iranian protests.

Today I am here to tell you that as long as there is no independent judiciary system in Iran, there is no freedom of expression, no political freedom. There is no free press. There is no freedom to practice your own religion. There is no freedom to choose what you want to wear in Iran.

None of the oppressors are being punished in Iran. The responsibility then goes to every individual outside Iran and international communities to take responsibility and to take action.

I want to speak about a system that makes life hell—there is no other word for it—for women as well. Girls from the age of seven have to wear a compulsory hijab. If they don't, they won't be able to get an education. They won't be able to get a job. They won't be able to get a driver's licence. They won't be able to get any kind of official documents. In fact, they won't be able to live in their own country. They will be kicked out of their own homeland just because they don't wear a hijab.

Five years ago that was actually the reason that I launched a campaign called “My Stealthy Freedom”. This is a homegrown campaign. It's a grassroots movement that has more than three million followers on Instagram and Facebook. I provide a platform for women inside Iran to practise their civil disobedience by taking off their hijab and walking unveiled in public. This is a punishable crime but they want to challenge the government.

The risk is very high. In only one day the Government of Iran arrested 29 women of the White Wednesdays movement. The campaign has different initiatives. White Wednesdays is about women going in public and waving or holding their white head scarf.

In another initiative, which is called “My Camera Is My Weapon”, women practise their civil disobedience and film the harassers. They film the morality police while being beaten up. They film extremists whom the government of Iran and the law allow to beat up women and force them to wear the hijab.

For five years we spoke up very loudly about the compulsory hijab, but all the politicians around the world kept silent. They didn't want to touch the issue. Why? They think this is a very sensitive issue and they don't want to talk about it. Another reason is some negativity about President Trump in the United States. They want the whole world to keep silent because they don't want to be associated with the Trump administration and put pressure on Muslim minorities.

Let me be clear with you. I am a victim of the travel ban. I haven't seen my son for two years, but I haven't seen my family for 10 years, and Trump is not guilty here. It is the Islamic Republic that banned me from hugging my family. They interrogated my 70-year-old mother because of my activities here.

If I am loud enough to condemn the travel ban, then I have to invite the rest of the world to condemn the “women ban”, to condemn the ban of all Iranians who have different thoughts.

When I raise the issue of the compulsory hijab, people have four arguments to keep me silent.

As their first argument, they say the compulsory hijab is a cultural issue and that they don't want to talk about a cultural matter; let the Iranian people deal with it.

I remember that when Javad Zarif, the foreign minister of Iran went to France, he was challenged about the hijab. A female politician from France actually asked him why they forced non-Iranians—female politicians around the world who go to Iran to visit his beautiful country—to wear the hijab. Do you know what he said? He said that the hijab is part of our culture, and foreigners should respect it.

First of all, I Photoshopped him in our so-called culture. I Photoshopped him in a hijab and I said, “If this is the culture, respect it yourself. If anyone wants to understand what it means to be forced to respect the culture, try it. Wear the hijab by force for only one day. Then you will understand and will never say that forcing a woman to wear the hijab is part of your culture.”

More important than this, culture is flexible; it is not written in stone. It changes from generation to generation.

More important than even that—let me be clear—is that before the revolution, women in Iran had a choice about whether they wanted to wear the hijab or not. My mother used to wear the hijab before the revolution and does so right now. Here, we are talking about compulsion and calling a discriminatory law part of our “culture”. This is an insult to a nation.

The second argument by which people around the world keep me silent about fighting against the compulsory hijab is this. They say that this is the law of the land, so we have to respect the law. That's wrong. Slavery used to be legal. A bad law should be challenged to make it a respectable law. Many women in Iran sacrificed their lives to challenge a bad law. When you legitimize the same law, you're actually empowering the government to put more pressure on women.

On the same day that Shaparak Shajarizadeh, one of the women from my campaign, was arrested just because of waving a head scarf in public, three female politicians from the Netherlands who went to my country obeyed the compulsory hijab law without even challenging it. Their argument was that they wanted to respect the law. When a woman risks her life and gets arrested to challenge a bad law, then it is the responsibility of all the female politicians around the world, when they go to Iran, to understand the point and challenge the bad law. Why? Let me give you another example.

If my government goes to France, the first thing they ask is to remove all the alcoholic beverages from any official dinner. Why? They stand up for Islamic values. They never say that this is the culture for France, or this is the law or we have to respect the culture of another country. They stand up for their values. So, I want you to stand up for human rights values.

We all remember the burkini ban in France. The world united and condemned it. Nobody said that this is part of French culture, that this is a law and we have to respect the law in France. We all condemned it. When it comes to the Islamic Republic and Saudi Arabia, why does the whole world keep silent?

The third argument is when they never helped Iranian women. They say that the compulsory hijab is an internal matter, that it's a domestic issue. This is wrong. As far as the government of Iran forces all non-Iranians, all female politicians, even foreign ministers, even the First Lady to wear a hijab when they visit Iran, then this is not an internal matter and this is not about women inside Iran. It's about all women around the world.

I want to give you an example. All the athletes are forced to wear a hijab if they want to attend any international tournament in Iran. Think about it. In Canada, if the government comes in with a law and says that all the Muslim women are allowed to attend any tournament in Canada if they remove the hijab, what would you do? What would the rest of the world do? This is what I want you to do.

When all the female athletes are forced to wear a hijab, then we have to stand up for women's dignity. Here we are talking about women being forced to wear it or to remove it—it doesn't matter. But, if you take action on one side and you keep silent on the other side, then you are hypocrites. We have to respect the international standard, not apply a double standard.

The fourth argument is when the whole world kept silent. They say they don't want to touch the compulsory hijab issue because it will cause Islamophobia. It's because you never lived in a country, and you never experienced “women phobia”. I just made up that term.

We live in a country where they're scared of women, scared of my body, my hair, my identity and my existence. So you think we're causing Islamophobia—or the law lashes me, arrests me, beats me up, kicks me out, or interrogates my mother. Are we causing Islamophobia by lashing people for drinking, thinking or choosing another lifestyle? No. All of those are sharia laws, which count us as second-class citizens. They are causing Islamophobia, not us.

Believe me, supporting women's rights in Iran and Saudi Arabia does not make you Islamophobic. Join us.

The last thing is they always say this is a small issue, and the Middle East has so many bigger problems so let's just focus on bigger problems. Let me be clear. In 2014, the Government of Iran arrested 3.6 million women just because they were wearing an inappropriate hijab. Within eight months, they impounded 40,000 cars just because the drivers had an inappropriate hijab. Do you still think this is a small issue?

It is not a small issue when the head scarf and hijab is in the hands of a government that forces you to carry a fake identity every day. For 40 years, the Government of Iran wrote their ideology on the backs of Iranian women, so we are the ones carrying the most visible symbol of oppression with us. For 40 years this became the genetic code of the Islamic Republic, the main pillar of the Islamic Republic.

If you still think this is a small issue, I'm going to give you another example. When this government does not allow you to control what you put on your head, believe me, this government is never going to allow you to control what's going on inside your head. That is why I always say that and invite all the politicians around the world to stand up for universal values. Don't call it internal matters, because human rights are a global issue and we all need to take a stand.

I know I talk a lot, because I have a lot to say here.

My last point is that Iranian women are fighting and risking their lives. Right now, there are three activists in prison. Yasamin Ariani and her mother are in prison because they handed out flowers to women who wear the hijab and they invited them to join the White Wednesdays movement. Mojgan Keshavarz and Vida Movahed are in prison because they protested against the compulsory hijab.

If you think this is a small issue, think about women being imprisoned just because they want to make decisions about their own body. My body is my choice. This is not a small issue.

When Iranian women are fighting for their dignity, take a stand and make the Islamic Republic responsible. Sanction all the oppressors and make them accountable. Ask them to release all the women who protest against the compulsory hijab. Ask them to release all the political prisoners. That's my demand and the demand of many Iran women inside Iran.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you very much to both of you for your passionate testimony.

I also acknowledge and point out that this morning we're doing this hearing in co-operation with our Subcommittee on International Human Rights, chaired by Anita Vandenbeld. We have David Anderson and other members of the subcommittee here as well.

With that, we're going to go to questions, beginning with MP Genuis, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you so much. It's an honour to be here to hear you and to be part of this testimony.

I salute your courage and the courage of the Iranian people. When I think about Iranian culture, that's what I think of. It's a great culture that you should be so proud to celebrate.

[Masih Alinejad]

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I want to situate my question in some of the conversations we're having here in Parliament around Canada-Iran relations.

There was a motion passed in June of last year to call on the government to designate the IRGC a terrorist entity under the Criminal Code. It was a motion that came from the official opposition, but it passed with the support of every government member who was present. I think many members on all sides are hopeful to see that lead to action eventually, although it hasn't yet led to that listing.

Can you tell us specifically about the role played by the IRGC in the issues you talked about, both within Iran or throughout the region?

One of the counter-arguments we hear on sanctions issues is that sanctions are going to hurt the people, not the regime. Could you speak to that as well, if you agree that a sanction targeting the IRGC specifically is going to be helpful to the people of Iran?

[Masih Alinejad]

Thank you so much for this important question.

I support targeted sanctions, and I want to make clear that, yes, general sanctions hurt Iranian people. Ordinary people are suffering from general sanctions. However, targeted sanctions sanctioning Sepah, the revolutionary guard and Iranian national TV are what the Iranian people want, because these are the main propaganda tools.

Islamic television actually brings the activists on TV to make a false confession. They do that to a lot of activists: political activists, student activists, women's rights activists and the lawyers.

The revolutionary guard as well had an important role in oppressing the Green Movement. As I said in my testimony, more than 100 people were killed and it was the revolutionary guard that was responsible. That is why I strongly believe that targeted sanctions would help people.

Actually, a lot of people are using social media to express themselves. When Javad Zarif or the president of Iran condemn that and ask the rest of the world to read their Twitter account and understand that people are not happy about sanctioning the revolutionary guard, I have to make clear that it's a big lie.

Twitter is filtered in Iran. The Government of Iran actually filtered social media to ban people from expressing themselves. How ironic is it that they're using social media to say this sanction is hurting people?

People were actually taking to the streets in Tehran and saying, “Our enemy is here. They lied to us. Our enemy is not America.”

They were asking for the benefit of the deal. People celebrated the Iran deal in the street, dancing together. They were very happy and the main slogan in the protest was “Why are you sending money to Gaza? Why are you sending money to Lebanon? Why are you sending money to Syria?” They were complaining about not receiving the benefit of the deal.

That is why many people in Iran are actually supporting the sanctioning of the revolutionary guard and sanctioning the Islamic main propaganda tool, Iranian national TV.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

I want to get in one other question before the end of my time, but before that, Ms. Ebadi, do you want to comment on the IRGC issue?

[Dr. Shirin Ebadi]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows:]

The revolutionary guards, all the corruption, the economic corruption in Iran which I spoke about, the majority of them go back to the revolutionary guards because they are present in all the economic sectors and all of them belong to the revolutionary guards. As well, the revolutionary guards are not only a military force, but also an economic force with a huge security sector.

Let me explain that one of your scientists, Kavous Seyed-Emami, who was part of a human rights NGO, was arrested by the revolutionary guards. He was told that he was charged with espionage. He perished in jail. His death was suspicious. His wife, who is an Iranian Canadian and wants to leave the country, is not allowed to leave the country.

Seven people were charged with espionage and arrested by the revolutionary guards. They're in revolutionary guard jails, but the minister of information and the minister of intelligence announced several times that they are not spies. In fact, there is a government within a government in this plan, which is the revolutionary guards.

I am completely in agreement with sanctioning the revolutionary guards because their hand must be cut off from the power. Alinejad mentioned Zahra Kazemi who was tortured and killed in jail. She was my client. I'm completely aware of the file. Zahra Kazemi was arrested and killed by the revolutionary guards.

Other Iranian Canadians, Homa Hoodfar, Ramin Jahanbegloo and Mazier Bahari, were all arrested by the revolutionary guards. Therefore, I am in agreement with sanctioning the revolutionary guards, but I emphasize again—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Dr. Ebadi.

[Dr. Shirin Ebadi]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows:]

Let me add this. The economic sanctions are against the people. They will suffer. Satellite sanctions do not allow Iranians, the Iranian government to use western countries' satellites and TV channels, non-Persian TV channels, to broadcast to other countries and to deceive people that way. That would be necessary—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Levitt]

Thank you, Dr. Ebadi.

I want to leave time to make sure we can get to the other questions.

We're going to go straight to MP Vandenbeld, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Ebadi and Ms. Alinejad, I want to express my absolute respect and admiration for the work that you're doing, for your perseverance and for your courage.

Ms. Alinejad, you talked about the women of the world being in solidarity with Iranian women. I can assure you that the women of Canada are there standing side by side with Iranian women.

[Masih Alinejad]

The men are as well.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Yes, the men are too, absolutely. We need the men and the women. Thank you.

I'm very struck by your testimony about 3.6 million women being arrested because of what they wear. You used words like "women ban" and actually I think a very apt expression, "women phobia", that is happening there. That's probably a very accurate expression...the morality police, the kinds of things that are happening today to women in Iran, but it wasn't always like that.

Ms. Ebadi, I note from your CV that you were a judge.

[Dr. Shirin Ebadi]

Yes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Women were educated. Women were in senior positions. You spoke about culture. You spoke about law. If you look at the culture and law before 1979, this was not part of that. Could you talk a little bit about the fact that you had women who were in prominent positions, women who had rights? What was the impact on society of those rights being taken away from an entire generation at this point?

How can we, internationally, help Iran and help Iranian women to be able to get back to a place—or go even further—where they have those basic fundamental human rights?

[Masih Alinejad]

Should I start or does Ms. Ebadi want to answer?

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Go ahead.

[Masih Alinejad]

Let me give you a better picture of what happened to us, the people of Iran, after the revolution.

Ms. Ebadi was a judge, but after the revolution, she was banned from being a judge. We had female ministers. We had singers. We had women entering stadiums or practising any kinds of sports that they wanted to do.

After the Islamic revolution, all the social freedoms were taken away from us. That is why I always say that this Islamic revolution became a revolution against women. If we want to win the battle, then every individual woman should have her own revolution against the oppressors. This is actually what women in Iran now have been doing.

I just want to give you an example about the cultural change in Iran. From the beginning of when I launched the “My Stealthy Freedom” campaign and I invited women to join the movement against the compulsory hijab, people were saying that it's going to create a cultural war. I kept reminding them that no, our culture is tolerant. Before the revolution, as I said, we had beautiful pictures of women walking side by side together. This is my dream, to walk with my mother shoulder to shoulder. She wears a hijab and I don't want to wear a hijab. It was difficult for people inside Iran.

Right now, this is the most prominent civil disobedience movement in Iran where people are actually creating a cultural transition. They're talking together and having a free debate. One woman was actually using her camera and she filmed the morality police to show the rest of the world that this is not our culture. This is one of the most discriminatory laws where women were being beaten up. She filmed it. She sent a video to me. I posted it on my Instagram account and it got nine million views. Believe me, the supreme leader of Iran doesn't get that many views.

That actually shows the power of ordinary women who bring change within the society. What we want is that you do not ignore them and that the international community recognize these women. Before the deal, when Catherine Ashton, the high representative of the European Parliament, the EU, went to Iran, their condition was that they want to come and have a deal but they want to meet with the human rights activists. They got it, and they talked to Narges Mohammadi. But after the deal, what happened? They buried the human rights deal under the nuclear deal and they ignored human rights.

What I want is that human rights are not buried and we care about these people who are fighting within the society.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Ms. Ebadi, perhaps from your own personal experience, what is your perspective on this?

[Dr. Shirin Ebadi]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows:]

In order to summarize, Ms. Alinejad said some words, but allow me to answer the next question by myself. If you want an answer to the same question twice, there would be a lot of time spent on this and we won't get to the others.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay. My apologies for that.

I would like one of the parts of my question answered. It's what can the international community do? What can international women...?

I know you're part of the Nobel Women's Initiative. There are others who are part of the World Movement for Democracy.

What is it that the international community can do that would actually empower women in Iran?

We'll start with Ms. Ebadi.