Evidence of meeting #140 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was iranian.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It highlights the challenges, that he's trying to speak out, and.... I'm not going to get into the politics of what he was trying to do; I assume he was trying to help, but he misstepped, or something like that.
I guess it shows the challenges. We would be in the same boat. Let's say that we took a picture with you and said something negative against the regime. That might actually make things worse. Would it?
As an Individual
It's a fair question that all public figures have to think through. I think that in a context in which I just talked about, Magnitsky sanctions, you're probably quite safe in terms of where the resentment is going to come.
He took a lot of political flack domestically. My sense, in all honesty.... I don't think that was the engine driving things. He didn't make it worse with his words. It played through, and they were used, and it would have been prudent, I think, for the foreign office to have been a lot more strident, saying, “Listen, that's just nonsense; back off”, whereas they rather accommodated it.
If the question is, should we speak out on behalf of Canadian citizens abroad—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You have the same challenge yourself. I assume you want to speak. You've had to make decisions. Do you speak out loud and clear, or do you try to play along? What answer have you come to?
As an Individual
Across the piece of all the different families, we take different views. I'm definitely at the loud and clear end of things. There are a couple of things I perhaps wouldn't do, but broadly I think the truth is on our side and that we should be straightforward.
There are some families who keep quiet completely—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
—because they're hoping that by keeping quiet it might—
As an Individual
—and they're being told that by the Iranian authorities, and sometimes they're being told that by their own foreign service, saying that this is a delicate issue and let's just go—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
So even among yourselves, you're all challenged to try to find the right way.
Liberal
As an Individual
In terms of those who were part of this UN submission—that's active families co-operating—there are about 15.
Not all of them were on the record there. There are some who are named authors, and some who are cases, and then there are some who were involved but wouldn't want to have it acknowledged. There are probably a number of others also who didn't want to be.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
So there are 15 of you on record.
What countries are they from?
As an Individual
The majority would be from the States, from the U.K., a couple from Canada, and from Europe—those would be from Austria, Sweden and the Netherlands—and then a couple of others.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
There are actually, then, quite a few countries impacted by this.
Has there been any coordinated effort whereby the countries that are impacted got together and said that they were going to lever their coordinated efforts against...?
As an Individual
I think that's a really important thing to happen. There is an element of divide and rule, if I'm honest, in the way Iran has played it through bilateral deals.
As an Individual
Divide and rule, I mean in the way Iran has played it through individual bilateral deals, in secret.
As an Individual
There is a sensitivity to this. Let us say you're the British foreign office. You have some cases like us who want to be public and you have some cases that want to be private, and where you position yourself is tricky. I think, though, that those of us who are public are certainly calling for international coordination.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You said you want to raise the cost of their doing this. They're doing it with impunity right now in saying, “Do whatever you want; you can't hurt us.”
If these countries were to get together and say they were going to raise the cost, as you said, how would they be able to collectively raise the cost to say, “You're going to stop this”?
As an Individual
Well, I would have thought that something like the Magnitsky sanctions, coordinated, with the same sanctions—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
If we were to take the Magnitsky sanctions and say that we should coordinate this, we should all act in parallel—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
—and even maybe get some other countries from which they haven't yet kidnapped people and get them to join in on this....
As an Individual
For sure I think that would be very helpful. I think also that the UN, as a vehicle for the universal periodic review process, which is where Iran is up in front of the UN and has to justify its human rights record, that can be coordinated, with different countries raising the same points, specifically targeting on three or four issues, one of which could be—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
As you know, they killed a Canadian citizen in cold blood. That was brought up by the—