I think that sometimes we allow a false rationale, a false logic, to enter the discussion. What people like Putin or Lukashenko try to do is, first, make the best argument they have against sanctions, which is that sanctions hurt the people. It's hypocrisy because the regime is hurting people. This is especially clear in the case of Belarus, because the economy now is in a catastrophic state because of the lack of reforms, because of the lack of anything that people could benefit from. The regimes hurt the people, not the sanctions.
Again, I must stress that sanctions are not magic. They are not a strategy. They are an instrument that should serve the strategy of democratic changes in the countries and the relationship of major countries like Canada, like the United States, like the European countries, with the regimes that are not complying with their own obligations, especially as regards human rights.
Sometimes I hear the argument that there were changes in eastern Europe without sanctions, but it's wrong because the sanctions were there, because it was not only Polish Solidarity that was sacrificing their lives in their fight for freedom but there were also sanctions from the west against the Polish government, especially after the introduction of martial law.
It is one of the the elements of the general policy of any individual country, especially western democracies, with rogue regimes. I think it's a very important element, but it has to be an element of a logical and durable strategy.