Yes, those are very good questions, because that is the dilemma. We do want to be able to take action, especially in dealing with the corruption issue. It's is a major challenge for a great many countries, and very paralyzing, so certainly we do want to assist and be able to return assets.
Just focusing on that, I'll speak a little bit about the sanctions element, because they are two very separate things for me.
If you're dealing with a situation of individuals who are suspected or believed to have taken money from their country or inappropriately obtained it and you want to go after those assets, a number of measures already exist to attack the assets. Using the criminal conviction proceeds of crime approach is very difficult when it's foreign assets, but in several provinces—when I left, I think it was three, but there are probably more now—there are mechanisms for attacking the assets.
Therefore, you bring proceedings directly against the assets. You don't need the individual and you don't need the criminal offence; you attack the assets, and there is where you use mutual assistance to try to at least get information from the country as to what they believe the individual did or how the individual took the money out. It's not easy, but at least you get a better balance then, because you can go after the assets and at the same time have some modicum of protection.
The other problem that arises in these cases, and we've seen it in many situations, is you get one political regime ousted and then there's a new political regime; it can involve corruption, but it can also just involve a political fight, if I could put it that way.
My strong urge is to look very carefully at the already existing pieces of legislation and practice that Canada has. That's also consistent with the international approach. The United Nations Convention Against Corruption has a whole chapter aimed at that. That's what I would say on that side.
Then, if you're talking about trying to sanction people whose conduct is of concern or to prevent more international humanitarian violations, there you do have a much reduced standard. We're not talking about the kinds of standards you need for criminal proceedings. You can impose the sanctions on....
I used a test of whether there was sufficient information to provide a reasonable and credible basis for listing this person. You don't have to get a lot of information, and there's often intelligence that can be used, but it's just then allowing the person, if they want to, to be able to challenge it ultimately. It's providing a mechanism that most of the time doesn't get used, but at least you have the protection there in case a person wants to try to be delisted.
Those are some of my thoughts on the questions. I hope that's of some help.