I think you've touched on an excellent question, which is engagement with whom? I'll be the first to say that I also support the inclusion at the international level of engagement with North Korea as part of the solution. To me, sanctions are about getting North Korea back to the negotiating table, which is something we generally agree on internationally. Few would dispute that is something we would like to see happen. If that's the objective, we have to have a negotiating table to come back to.
We learned this with the Iran case quite well, I think. I know that you spoke to Richard shortly before me about his experiences with that.
I agree that broadly speaking—and this is not a policy prescription for Canada specifically—we do need to have engagement be part of a policy discussion on North Korea.
I think Canada's engagement can best be felt in reaching out to others, and they need not necessarily be like-minded states. In fact, some of the most intensive work we have to do is with states who don't feel threatened by North Korea. To some extent I've had conversations with foreign government officials to explain that there's a North Korea and a South Korea. It's that basic of a conversation in some places.
We do have a lot more work to do. Many countries don't prioritize this issue. They allow North Korean diplomats to operate on their territory fairly unscrutinised. They allow them to open companies and bank accounts, and are not necessarily taking a close look at what those are being used for.
Then you have countries around the world that actually need a bit of pressure to cut off destabilizing ties with North Korea. There's a large portion of Africa that still buys weapons and related goods and services from North Korea, completely in violation of UN Security Council resolutions.
If we get them to disengage at a political level, we're also going to have to make sure that their regulations and internal laws ensure that those policies are sustained. Those are the types of conversations in which Canada can be helpful, in my view.