Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 13th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chong, for that important historical clarification.

Is there any debate on the motion?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I was just going to briefly clarify this, because the language that it used seemed to say “a member of Parliament who is a member of a caucus that is not part of this committee”. Does this apply to independent members as well?

Madam Clerk, could you clarify?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Yes, please, Madam Clerk. That's an important question for independent members.

[The Clerk]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Technically, the Green Party members are all sitting as independent members. You have to have a certain number of people per party to be a recognized party. It does include all independent members.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have a point of clarification, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Go ahead, please.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I'm sorry to be splitting hairs here, but the three members of the Green Party are sitting as members of parties in the House of Commons but not members of recognized parties in the House of Commons. That's a fine distinction. They are sitting as party members, but not as recognized party members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

With respect to independents, I think they're captured by the fact that it's a member “who is not a member of a caucus represented on the committee”. We're inclusive in the sense that it applies to all independents. That's a point worth noting for the committee.

Is there any other debate? Are there any other questions or clarifications required before we vote on this motion?

(Motion agreed to)

Go ahead, Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I have one last one, on in camera meetings:

That the committee may meet in camera only for the following purposes:

(a) to consider a draft report;

(b) to attend briefings concerning national security;

(c) to consider lists of witnesses;

(d) for any other reason, with the unanimous consent of the committee;

That all votes taken in camera, with the exception of votes regarding the consideration of draft reports, be recorded in the Minutes of Proceedings, including how each member voted when recorded votes are requested;

That any motion to sit in camera is debatable and amendable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

The members have heard the text of this motion. Is there debate on this motion?

Mr. Harris, go ahead.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I would raise whether.... The tradition has been that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure discusses more than witnesses and lists of witnesses, but their deliberations are in camera and they often talk about what studies should be done, in what order, and all of those things. These are matters that are normally in camera.

I haven't seen this motion, and I'm a little bit uncomfortable dealing with complex motions without having the wording in front of us. We did have the routine motions because they had been circulated, but I haven't seen this motion and I don't know whether the chair is able to assure me that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure is included in the list of in camera meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

This is an important point, Mr. Harris. Thank you.

Let me ask our clerk, not only for clarification of that point but also perhaps for her views on the tenor of this motion.

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a new motion to me. I have just received the wording of it, so I can circulate it to the members of the committee if you give me two minutes.

In terms of the motion itself, there are some issues in particular with this committee that I would flag to the members. For example, Foreign Affairs and International Development could deal with situations that have diplomatic repercussions. For example, if you are trying to study a situation in country X versus a situation in country Y, that would be recorded, so people would know that you made a decision regarding one country over another or one situation over another. If that happened in camera, your recorded division would be included, but the proceedings of everything would be in camera, so you would not be able to discuss your reasoning behind making those decisions without violating privilege.

That one major diplomatic consideration might be something that I would flag to the committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Madam Clerk, for that clarification. Are there any views by members on this motion, or any debate?

I have Mr. Harris and Mr. Oliphant.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I don't think the committee should decide this today. We haven't had time to review and think about it. I don't know where it's coming from or what its purpose is overall. Can I move that this be tabled? I think Mr. Oliphant had a motion that we adjourn debate on this particular motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Harris, with your indulgence, we'll have Mr. Oliphant come in with his views. I think that may be the direction the members are exploring.

Mr. Oliphant.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, my understanding is that a motion to adjourn debate is not debatable. Am I correct in that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

It isn't, but I don't know if it was put in those terms.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Harris, would you move a motion to adjourn debate?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm pre-empting Mr. Oliphant making the same motion. I prefer to have the motion dealt with, but I don't mind him having his views.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I think Mr. Harris and I are on the same page here. My own side may be upset with me, but I would like time to think about this. I have been in many situations where in the middle of a meeting we recognized that we were getting testimony from a person who was perhaps vulnerable with respect to human rights. I had meetings in which we had LGBTQ witnesses from another country who had wanted their identities protected and we didn't know that. There are several situations. We've had some members of the Yazidi community who wanted their identities protected but we weren't prepared for that. There are several issues. I would like a little bit of time to think about that.

So, perhaps either Mr. Harris or I can move a motion to adjourn debate on this so that we can think about it and bring it back. I would just like a little bit of time with it. I have probably upset some on my own team about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

I have a sense that a motion to adjourn debate is imminent, but it hasn't been brought yet.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I move it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Harris has moved that debate be now adjourned on this motion.

(Motion agreed to)

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair?