Foreign Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2021

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I agree with my colleague Mr. Fonseca, the chair of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights, on which I sit. He has just told us that Canada is a leader in COVAX. However, when I was in high school, my mother used to tell me to watch out for leaders, because there are good ones and bad ones. Right now, Canada is a leader, because it is the only G7 country that has used COVAX. So I'm not sure whether that's a good way to be a leader. However, I agree with Mr. Fonseca that Canada is a leader. But being a leader and being a good leader are two different things.

I would like to know whether the minister is uncomfortable with the fact that Canada has used COVAX when a country like Haiti has yet to receive any of the doses available through this initiative.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Thank you for the question.

It is important to remember why COVAX was set up. To make it work, wealthier countries have to buy and share doses through this initiative.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair, I don't want to sound like Mr. Genuis, but I asked the minister whether she was uncomfortable with the fact that Haiti has received no doses, while Canada has used the COVAX initiative. That was my question. That was my only question.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Okay, that's fine. I'll answer the question, but I would also like to explain that COVAX relies on the co-operation of countries. Doses are offered to countries and they decide whether they want to accept them. Haiti said no to the AstraZeneca doses offered under this initiative. Of course Haiti had the opportunity to get COVAX doses, but they didn't want them.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I was expecting that answer from you. However, other countries wanted doses but did not get them, whereas Canada did. Could you tell me whether this makes you uncomfortable?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

It's important to know that there are two different sources of vaccines available through COVAX: those for developing countries come from the Serum Institute of India, whereas those for richer countries come from South Korea. So vaccines are provided to countries through two different mechanisms.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's not my question, Madam Minister.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

It is also important to know that Gavi works with developing countries to ensure that they have the necessary structures in place to distribute the doses they receive. Countries receive the doses at different times depending on whether or not their reception plans are approved.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So you're telling me that you took advantage of the fact that some countries were not able to receive the doses they wanted to receive in order to dip into the COVAX bank.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

No, that's not what I said at all.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's what I just understood.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

That's what you want to understand, but that's not the reality.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So I misunderstood.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

The COVAX mechanism has two windows, which are very important for its proper functioning. When wealthier countries buy doses, they help poorer countries buy more doses.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm going to stop the discussion here, otherwise we will waste time. I see that you are comfortable with the idea that countries may have asked for vaccines but may not have received them, while Canada has dipped into the COVAX bank.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

That's not really how the system works. It's important to clarify and not make it seem like Canada is doing something inappropriate.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay, that's great.

To my knowledge, the government has not yet taken a position at the World Trade Organization on vaccine patents. However, about 100 countries have already done so. This is a critical issue for developing countries that have some production capacity but do not have the rights to produce generic vaccines.

Will Canada support the vaccine patent waiver? At the very least, will it not harm the process?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Canada has not harmed this initiative. In fact, we are there to find a constructive solution. We have been in discussions with countries that support such a waiver and with countries that do not support it.

This is more a question for the Minister of International Trade.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You are absolutely right. However, you are in a good position to know that, since you are a member of cabinet.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I am happy to answer the question as best I can.

Minister Ng is currently working with the new WTO director-general to find a third way, because we are really at an impasse right now. Canada is working with everyone, as we always do, to find a solution.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We are working with everyone except the 100 countries that agree on the waiver.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

No, we are working with those countries, of course. We are having many conversations with them in Geneva.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's wonderful. I see that they are really producing results.

Earlier, you said that we were going to give back the surplus vaccines. That's what I understood. Are you going to announce this to Canada's international co-operation partners so that they can react quickly?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Could you repeat the question?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You told us that you were going to send surplus vaccines abroad. That is what I understood.