Evidence of meeting #33 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Okay, the committee has heard the question. Is there unanimous consent to go up to an additional two minutes per party?
If parties have asked the questions they wanted to, they don't need to take advantage of that, but for those who would like to ask an additional quick question of two minutes in duration, is there unanimous consent by the committee to go on for an additional 10 minutes?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Is there any opposition?
Okay, we will go in the order of typically allotted questions.
Mr. Chong, would you want to go ahead, or Mr. Diotte?
Conservative
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Mr. Volkov, you've mentioned that Roman Abramovich is at the top of the list of people who should be sanctioned by western governments. You've mentioned his significant assets in the United Kingdom. He has assets in other OECD countries as well.
Could you tell us why targeting Roman Abramovich with sanctions is so critically important to your cause?
Chief of Staff for Alexei Navalny, As an Individual
We have prepared an evidence pack on these oligarchs that we suggest to include in our supposed sanction list. There we elaborate a lot on Mr. Abramovich.
To make a long story short, he pretends to be a businessman, but he is just a nominal holder of Mr. Putin's assets. He is responsible for the privatization of the oil industry by Mr. Putin. He acquired for some pennies the oil companies that were taken by force using the criminal charges, and so on, from independent businessmen, taken on behalf of the Russian government and then the control over these oil companies was transferred to Mr. Abramovich.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Thank you very much. I appreciate that answer.
That's all the questions I have, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Thank you very much, Mr. Chong.
Now we'll go over to the Liberals.
Mr. Oliphant or colleagues, you have two minutes.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I'm fine. I'm wondering if Dr. Fry has anything. I think that that would be appropriate.
Liberal
Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC
Not necessarily.
This is also discussed at the OSCE and the OSCE PA. I've heard a lot of this. I have a lot of information, and some of you added to that information, but I don't need any more. It's pretty clear that we are all in agreement in our support, etc.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
We're good. I think the answers were very complete. In fact, the questions from Mr. Bergeron, Mr. Harris, Mr. Chong and Mr. Diotte have been helpful for all of us, I think, so that's been very good.
Liberal
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to have another round because I have a question for Mr. Volkov that complements the one I asked the last time.
He was talking about moving activities outside the borders of Russia. We have certainly seen that that does not necessarily guarantee the safety of people outside Russia. Some have lost their lives because of their opposition to the regime. So another question concerns me.
If a number of the leaders are outside the country rather than inside, is there not a danger that the movement in Russia will be weakened?
Chief of Staff for Alexei Navalny, As an Individual
It is indeed the case—speaking of power movements—that people are forced out of the country. That's a fact, and that's why Putin is trying to destroy our off-line movement in the country. That's why Putin is forcing us abroad. That's why Alexei Navalny returned to Russia after he recovered, because he also realized that staying out of the country, in fact, makes us weaker. Now we are in this situation and we have no choice. We have to either cease all of our operations or continue them from abroad. Now we hope that we will be able to still be efficient enough to make a difference, even operating from abroad. That was [Inaudible—Editor] this year of online meetings and [Technical difficulty—Editor] has taught us a lot about how one can be efficient even from a long distance.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.
Mr. Harris, you can ask the witness a final question if you care to.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Volkov. First of all, I want to say that the persistence that you've demonstrated in your movement, this vision that you've shown for a new Russia, the determination in following up that.... Mr. Navalny should take some comfort in the notion that you've convinced at least me—and, I hope, many people who are watching this—that his suffering and his sacrifice are not in vein.
I just want to ask you whether you feel optimistic about the future of your movement, whether you think that there may also be other leaders who come up inside of Russia as a result of your continuation of this movement if you have to do it from the Internet and perhaps in part from outside the country.
Chief of Staff for Alexei Navalny, As an Individual
We are very optimistic. First of all, you couldn't be a pessimist and continue doing what we are doing. One needs a lot of, or a share of, optimism to do all of this.
Second, while we already see.... For instance, as we had to formally dissolve our network of regional offices, we have also announced that every regional office will be allowed to continue operations on its own. We will pass on the database of supporters, and we will pass on the regional fraction of the database of donors so that they can form a regional movement and continue to do whatever they want, reaching out to their supporters for some new local political projects and running in local elections.
The majority of our former regional branches have chosen to do so, and while Putin has kind of destroyed the centralized Navalny movement, there will be 30 or 40 milieu regional opposition movements that we have prepared, that we have kind of planted. We have gone through a lot of things together, like doing investigations, organizing rallies and such. Now they are able to do it on their own—so many new young leaders in Russia—and this is good.
I'm also very optimistic about the bigger picture. There is a generational change. In federal-level polls, Putin is still doing very well, but in polling for voters under 30, Navalny is going better than Putin, even despite all the efforts of propaganda machines, all the smear and fear campaigns against him. The clock is ticking in our favour. It's a slow historical process, but it's inevitable [Inaudible—Editor].
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann
Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.
Mr. Volkov, on our collective behalf, I thank you for taking the time this evening to be with us. Thank you for your candour and thank you for the level of detail that you've provided. The fact that we've kept you beyond the scheduled time is reflective of the committee's interest and concern, so we are grateful that you took the time to be with us and we thank you. Please keep safe.
Colleagues, we can now say goodbye to Mr. Volkov and then reconnect to our in camera setting to continue our discussion on committee business.
Thank you so much.
Chief of Staff for Alexei Navalny, As an Individual
Thank you very much for your attention and for your questions.
NDP