Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, with respect, the status of statehood is an important element in the global fight against COVID-19. In fact, the issue of statehood has been a significant topic of discussion with respect to a number of communities around the world that do not have that recognition and that are therefore not able to fully participate in multilateral organizations, such as the United Nations or the World Health Organization. I do think these questions are extremely relevant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Chong, thank you very much.

Ms. Dabrusin, thank you also for your point of order.

The committee very clearly agreed for this particular segment of a study, which includes four different segments, to focus on life-saving humanitarian assistance in countries that are the target of UN humanitarian work or appeals. In your introductory phrasing of the question, you were careful to link it to this particular study. If you could continue to do that to keep it relevant to our work, I will allow the questioning to continue.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ambassador Rae, the motion today, which Canada supported, talks about the contiguity of all Palestinian territories. As you know, Canada recognizes four occupied territories, those being the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. Is it the government's position that these territories should be contiguous to each other?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Again, Mr. Chong, I would like you to relate that to the topic at hand. Mr. Rae is free to answer that, but I would want us to be very concise with respect to this particular theme of the committee's study.

[Bob Rae]

I'm not avoiding the question, but I do think, Michael, that this is an impossible subject to discuss in two or three minutes.

You happen to have here at the committee two individuals who have an extraordinary knowledge of a world crisis that is taking place at the moment. I'm not afraid to answer any questions, but I think it would be far more appropriate for you to be focusing questions to those two individuals, who have a lot to contribute to the committee's understanding of the current international situation.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If Ambassador Rae isn't going to answer the question, I accept that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

You have a minute left, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have nothing further to add until a subsequent round. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much.

We will go to the next round of six minutes, which goes to Mr. Fonseca.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our distinguished guests. Congratulations, Mr. Beasley, on your award with the WFP. Mr. Rae, as our newly minted ambassador at the UN, congratulations. Welcome, Mr. Lowcock.

I want to refocus our questions on what we're here for, which is to talk about COVID-19, the humanitarian crisis around the world and the impacts of COVID-19.

Ambassador Rae, you've previously spoken at a subcommittee of this committee when you came as our special envoy on humanitarian issues and refugees. At that committee, you talked about the abysmal conditions facing refugees in camps, like those in Bangladesh and Myanmar.

I'd like to know how COVID-19 is being addressed in similar camps around the world today, if you have some insight.

[Bob Rae]

That question would be very well placed to Mr. Beasley and Sir Mark.

I would just say that the evidence is pretty overwhelming that the camps are being affected seriously by COVID. Some of it is, frankly, underestimated because we can't necessarily collect the kind of data that we should be able to collect. The conditions that one would expect to see in a lockdown, where kids can't go to school...there are serious impacts on women. As some of your previous witnesses talked about, the impact on women and children is very serious. It's having an effect not only on people's health care, but also on people's education and ability to make a living.

These are all the circumstances that are...very hard hit, which is what we mean when we say that the people who are vulnerable are being affected more seriously than anybody else.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Lowcock or Mr. Beasley, would you like to add to what Ambassador Rae has just said?

[Mark Lowcock]

I would just give a few examples of what Ambassador Rae has just said. I was speaking this morning to a group of people in Burkina Faso who had been forced to flee their homes at gunpoint, basically, by terrorist organizations and are now living in a camp for displaced people that is very congested, with very little water and sanitation, and not much food. These are circumstances that the virus loves. The virus wants to circulate in circumstances like that.

I was speaking to my colleagues who are working in the Cox’s Bazar refugee camp, which David and I visited together in late 2017. I spoke to them again just a few days ago. This is what the virus likes, these kinds of conditions. We don't really know the death toll from COVID-19 in these places, because there's such a low level of testing and because there are many other things that vulnerable people are losing their lives to.

One thing that is striking is that in the midst of all of their other problems, people, when you talk to them in these settings, do talk about what an additional impact COVID has made, both in terms of the virus but also the consequences of the virus, which David and I were both talking about in our introductory remarks.

I'm sure David has things to add.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Go ahead, David.

[David Beasley]

Yes, this is the kind of thing that you could talk about for an hour, case by case by case. When I talk about 135 million people on the brink of starvation going to 270 million, literally we can break that down on a per country basis and why and the impact it's having, not just in refugee camps but also on internally displaced people.

Also, on what Mark was saying about Burkina Faso, just a year ago we had over 77,000 internally displaced people. Now there are 1.6 million. When you take an already bad situation with the climate extremes, and then you have terrorist groups, and then in comes COVID, where you have lockdowns, you have distribution dynamics taking place because you can't move supplies. You have a quarantine in the city or a lockdown, or a port or a distribution point gets shut down, and let me tell you, the women and the children take the brunt of all of this. It is impacting everybody, but it impacts them more.

I could really get down to the weeds on this, but that's probably enough for right now.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

That was great. Thank you very much.

David, I know why you got the award. The WFP distributes more than 15 billion rations a year around the world. I know you do it at about 0.61 of a U.S. dollar per ration. I want to ask you about that: increasing the number of rations and the distribution. How is that all going throughout this pandemic? Has the cost increased because of the pandemic?

[David Beasley]

Well, it depends on where you're talking about. For example, if we are delivering to the Syrian war zone, it's more costly to enter and deliver in a war zone.

Because of COVID, for example, the airline industry pretty much shut down in so many of the places we deliver to, so you can imagine.... For a little while, I was told, we were the world's largest operating airline as we were delivering COVID supplies to all the low- and middle-income countries around the world. We actually delivered to 172 countries, I think. These costs were extremely high, as you can imagine, and the cost of delivering food became more expensive. Also, we had distribution issues in a lot of different countries, so the price went up.

We are the world's largest provider, so we like to buy at scale. We like our donors to give us money in advance so that we can watch the market to pre-advance and pre-position food and buy it a lot cheaper. We can actually save several hundred million dollars a year if we get the flexibility of advance funding to watch the market—

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I'm sorry. I want to jump in because I only have a few seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Very quickly, Mr. Fonseca.

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Have your distribution logistics been disrupted by all of this?

[David Beasley]

Yes, but we've worked through it. We've had a lot of difficult scenarios in a lot of different countries.

A lot of times, a health minister will make a decision not realizing the impact. We come in quickly and explain it, and usually we get it worked out, but it's rippling around the globe as we speak, and it's not done yet. The worst is yet to come in these low- and middle-income countries, especially in Africa.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Beasley.

It is now Mr. Bergeron's turn to ask questions.

Mr. Bergeron, you have six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses, the Honourable Bob Rae, Mr. Beasley and Mr. Lowcock, for being with us today.

It is safe to say you are a very prestigious panel. We maybe should have given ourselves more time with you so we could take a deeper dive into certain issues.

First, I would like to take this opportunity to challenge a statement the Conservative members made ad nauseam today in the House of Commons—that Canada's vote in favour of the self-determination of the Palestinian people is a vote against Israel. I profoundly disagree with that statement. On the contrary, I think peace for both Israel and Palestine depends on the recognition of a Palestinian state living in peace alongside Israel. I do not believe Canada's vote is a vote against Israel.

Speaking of Palestine, I would like to ask the witnesses, beginning with Mr. Rae, about the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. The agency fears that it will not be able to afford to keep essential services going as the health crisis worsens. Its commissioner-general announced that he had informed all 28,000 staff members that the agency did not have the funds to pay their salaries for the month, jeopardizing the services it provides.

Does Canada plan to increase its contribution to the agency? What can be done to avert a humanitarian disaster among Palestinian refugees, who have faced significant hardship for years?

[Bob Rae]

All I can tell you, Mr. Bergeron, is that I know the Canadian government is carefully considering the humanitarian situation in Palestinian camps in the Middle East, as well as other humanitarian situations.

I think you should instead be asking Ms. Gould that question. I do know that all the governments that have supported and continue to support the work being done in refugee camps around the world are in talks right now to figure out what can be done to provide a humane response to a humanitarian situation. Clearly, the situation is dire right now.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Would the other two witnesses care to add anything on the circumstances in which the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East finds itself in?