Foreign Affairs Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Joshua Tabah]

Our understanding is that the situation differs significantly from country to country, so the responses that we are trying to support differ as well. We're working hand in hand with ministries of health and the World Health Organization to put in place vaccine competence campaigns. Sometimes that's because populations didn't have access to clear information; sometimes it's simply because they didn't have access to health services to receive the immunization.

I was in Nigeria a few weeks ago speaking with the minister of health about additional support that we could provide to ensure that the populations in remote areas receive not only access but clear and up-to-date information about the benefits of taking a COVID-19 vaccine.

There is work happening on multiple fronts at a country level, a regional level and also a global level to focus on demand generation, because that will be critical in achieving 70% immunization levels this year.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Sarai, thank you very much. Just before we go to our next intervention, I want to remind colleagues of the Board of Internal Economy health guidelines. If you're not speaking or having lunch, please continue to wear masks as set out by the Board of Internal Economy.

Go ahead, Mr. Bergeron. You have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like some clarification. In response to Mr. Chong's question earlier, Mr. Tabah suggested that Canada's financial contribution to COVAX consisted in supplying the equivalent of a certain number of vaccine doses.

Does that mean that the bulk of Canada's financial contribution to COVAX will be used to purchase doses and that no part of the contribution will go towards addressing the new challenge of distributing and administering doses in recipient countries?

[Joshua Tabah]

That's an excellent question. We are doing our best to distinguish the various funding amounts made available to COVAX. Through that mechanism, we endeavour not only to purchase, distribute and transport doses, but also to provide cold chain and technical support to countries in need.

Dose equivalency is an issue we discuss with the G7 and OECD to ensure a consistent approach. I'm referring to the 87 million doses, the equivalent number of doses procured through COVAX with Canada's financial contribution. With the assistance of the WHO, UNICEF and other partners, we are supporting the delivery and administration of doses, which that calculation does not include.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

You said two things in your answer that really piqued my curiosity.

First, as you said earlier, the doses are made available through COVAX, but the problem has more to do with the receiving and administration side of things. Are you talking to COVAX officials about making changes to our support, to ensure better distribution on the ground?

Second, what portion of Canada's assistance is being used to address that new challenge?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Please keep your answer brief, Mr. Tabah.

[Joshua Tabah]

We speak regularly with the people at COVAX. I mean daily, not just weekly. That is also true for partner countries where we would like to see an increase in vaccination coverage and the use of doses. We take that challenge seriously. We have assured the people at COVAX that we are prepared to take on a larger role to address these issues on a regional and international basis in the coming months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Tabah.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'd like to ask Mr. Tabah to get back to the committee in writing with the funding amounts provided by Canada for the distribution and administration of doses in recipient countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Your request has been noted, Mr. Bergeron.

Thank you.

Next we have Ms. McPherson for two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Speaking of written documentation, I'm wondering whether or not it would be possible for our witnesses to provide a list of all government meetings with the pharmaceutical lobby and related companies since the beginning of the pandemic, including notes from those meetings, if possible.

My question is going to follow up on my colleague Mr. Bergeron's questions on ODA.

My concern is that if ODA is being calculated using vaccines as part of our official development assistance, we will not see the same levels in other areas. If we calculate these as part of our ODA, will there be an impact on other areas where ODA is vitally important as we recover from COVID-19?

Mr. Tabah, perhaps you could take that one.

[Joshua Tabah]

Yes, I'd be happy to. Thank you.

To date, all the supports we have provided to COVAX in terms of financial support, as well as the support provided more broadly to the ACT accelerator for tests, treatments and health systems, have been additional to Canada's regular ODA budget. These are extraordinary COVID-19 funds that the government has made available to support this initiative, and as such should be viewed as additional and not substituting.

It is essential to maintain our current health services for populations in need, in particular during the pandemic.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

To clarify, going forward into next year's budget and into future budgets, we would expect to see that ODA would still have contributions for things like food security, knowing that the crisis in Ukraine is going to have deep impacts on food security around the world. We would still have support within our FIAP, the international assistance policy for women and girls. All of those things would not be taken from in order to account for the ODA that we've spent on vaccines.

[Joshua Tabah]

It's an excellent question, and one that I do not have an answer to. I can speak to what's been done to date, which is additional funding provided to the department that ensures the integrity of current reference level flows.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You mentioned earlier today that $15 million, I believe, was allocated to funding in South Africa to produce vaccines. We heard that there would be around $34 billion made by pharmaceutical companies over the course of the pandemic. I'm wondering if you feel that $15 million is sufficient to help South Africa get to a situation where they can create vaccines that are accessible to people around the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

We need a brief answer, please, sir.

[Joshua Tabah]

At this point, we're pleased to be the second most important donor towards that initiative. We're hoping that vaccines start rolling out the door next year. It will be a really important step for South Africa to be able to produce mRNA vaccines on soil.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Next is Mr. Aboultaif, please, for five minutes.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thanks again, Chair.

I will go back to my colleague MP Chong's question on the $540 million equivalent to 87-million doses, at $6.20 per dose.

Mr. Tabah, do you know whether this price is a universal unit cost for vaccines?

[Joshua Tabah]

These are relatively complicated policy discussions that we've had among G7 countries, and now among DAC countries, as part of the OECD, with COVAX. We've tried to provide the best estimate of an average cost. We're not privy to the specific cost paid per dose by COVAX, but we're trying to find a fair representation that would appropriately reflect, in a transparent way, the cost of procurement of the doses that COVAX has done.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

My issue with this is that Canada could have paid more than other countries. We've heard throughout the last two years that our unit cost was higher than what the European Union or the United Kingdom paid.

Do you have any idea on that?

[Joshua Tabah]

Unfortunately, no, but in terms of the valuation, it was important to find a solution that worked for all of us so that at least some simplicity and coherence were brought into the mechanism. It's related not to Canada's purchase price but rather to the equivalent that COVAX is needing to allocate per dose.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

COVAX has negotiated on behalf of all donors or participants in the fund to provide those vaccinations needed. Is that correct?

[Joshua Tabah]

What makes COVAX special is that it's a pooled procurement mechanism. It takes the demand from, say, 92 developing countries and is able to negotiate better prices and access as a result of that, and then it “bulk procures” doses to then allocate to its members.