Foreign Affairs Committee on April 17th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Welcome back, everyone.

I'd like to welcome the new witnesses. We're very grateful to have Professor Issiaka Mandé from Université du Québec à Montréal, and Mr. Landry Signé from the Brookings Institution.

Professor Mandé, you have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Issiaka Mandé, Professor, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual]

Thank you.

I would like to sincerely thank the committee for inviting me to come and talk about co-operation with the African continent.

As I said in my speaking notes, it is clear that envisaging co-operation with Africa means agreeing to deconstruct our vision of Africa and, above all, to take Africa as it is and not as it is not or as we would like it to be. This very important. Otherwise, we have to deal with all kinds of prejudice.

The increasingly critical opinion of the west, in general, is also at play, as is an approach consistent with what can be called the opinion of the Global South.

Talking about co-operation with Africa means engaging in a strategy that is mutually beneficial, both for the northern countries and for the African countries.

There is also another very important factor. I think the previous speaker talked about it. It involves having a multilateral policy that takes into account the choices of the African continent, which are implemented as part of a global agenda, a comprehensive strategy known as Agenda 2063. It contains very clear objectives and expectations. We can come back to that.

As I said, this co-operation with Africa is rife with prejudices. We think of Africa as the continent of disasters, where there is little innovation and a lack of empowerment, a continent that always has its hand out for assistance at all levels.

As a result, little attention is paid to the expertise and wishes of African populations, even though there is very strong expertise on the continent.

Similarly, little attention is paid to the opinions and desires that are being expressed and increasingly measured, quantified, and captured through the tools offered by the Afrobarometer research network, among others. The network manages to conduct surveys in 39 countries, with a sample of 50,000 people, for example. In the case of Mali, I would say there are strategies in place to take public opinion into account.

That said, what can we focus on?

It's important to recognize that the medium and longer-term economic and social development challenges outlined by the country concerned must remain at the forefront of Canada's foreign policy. They must not be marginalized by security issues. Increasingly, the African continent is being viewed exclusively through that lens, when other policy areas, such as social policy and economic policy, also need to be considered.

Also, there's this tendency to isolate, I would say, regimes that emerge from coups d'état. They are being marginalized. Marginalizing a political system also means marginalizing populations. What these people are asking for, instead, is support with a view to effecting change in the medium term so they can keep the political space open. This is very important, because those behind the coups want to hold on to power at all costs.

Let's take the case of a country I know a little more about, Burkina Faso. In that country, there are two million internally displaced people. Very little is said about it. More than 4,500 schools have been closed.

How are people coping with safety and security problems? They're not souls; they're not waiting to be delivered. To tackle security issues, we have to adopt what we call in our jargon a bottom-up approach.

Taking a bottom-up approach means looking at how citizens perceive or experience security problems, which include armed attacks, organized crime and food insecurity.

Take Burkina Faso, for example. According to Global Terrorism Index estimates, 25% of terrorist acts worldwide in 2023 took place in Burkina Faso. That is a quarter of all terrorist acts.

There is also the work being done to consolidate the economic fabric of African countries. This also means reviewing bilateral treaties, for example. These favour private investors, through predatory agreements.

Bilateral investment treaties, for example, have direct political impacts in developing countries—when it comes to goods and services procurement, for instance. They also have long-term repercussions on the emergence of economic development policies.

Another element that provokes debates in Canada-Africa relations is the way in which Canadian mining companies conduct themselves on the continent. There is an African mining code, for example, but it is not always adhered to. Everyone knows that.

Canada has an ombud to make sure that mining companies are held accountable—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Professor Mandé, I'm afraid that we've hit the six-minute mark, which means that you will have an opportunity to raise all the issues you meant to raise during questions from the members.

Prior to going to Mr. Signé for his opening remarks, I just want to inform you both that the bells are ringing, which means that the members need to cast a vote. We will suspend for approximately 12 minutes, and then we will resume with Mr. Signé's five minutes of opening remarks.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now resume.

Mr. Signé, the floor is yours. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

Please do look over every once in a while, because once you're very close to the five-minute mark, I will give you a signal, which means you should be wrapping things up within 10 to 15 seconds. The same applies when members are asking questions, because we have minutes allotted to each party. By the unanimous consent of all members, after we hear from you, Mr. Signé, we will open it up to questions, and each party will be provided five minutes.

Mr. Signé, please do proceed.

[Prof. Landry Signé, Senior Fellow, The Brookings Institution, As an Individual]

Greetings, and thank you very much.

Chair Ali Ehsassi, Vice-Chair Michael Chong, Vice-Chair Stéphane Bergeron and distinguished members of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, I am incredibly honoured and grateful for the unique opportunity to testify on Canada's approach to Africa.

I'm Professor Landry Signé, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, but also executive director and full professor at the Thunderbird School of Global Management and co-chair of the World Economic Forum's regional action group for Africa.

It is time for Canada to claim the place it deserves in Africa as many traditional and emerging global powers are racing to capture Africa's tremendous economic potential—the next world growth market.

I would like to share a few key trends. By 2030, the combined consumer spending in Africa will exceed $6.7 trillion U.S. for 1.7 billion people. By 2050, Africa's combined consumer and business spending will exceed $16.12 trillion U.S. for 2.53 billion people, and by the end of this century, Africa will have about 40% of the global population. In 2024, 12 of the world's fastest-growing economies will be based in Africa. Their continent is the second-fastest growing region in the world.

Another trend is expanding the global and continental partners of Africa. With the launch of the African Continental Free Trade Area, Africa is now home to the largest free trade area in the world. The AfCFTA could lift about 30 million Africans out of poverty, increase the income of 68 million other Africans, increase exports by at least $560 billion, and generate more than $450 billion of potential gains for African economies by 2035 as per the World Bank study.

Canada has sustained a competitive advantage to partner with Africa and advance Canadian trade and investment with the continent, while meeting the majority of Africans' prosperity, thus achieving mutual prosperity.

I will be happy to expand on specific sectors during the conversation, but let me just finish by sharing a few specific recommendations.

It's important for Canada to develop a new type of commercial diplomacy, identifying and disseminating the tremendous African potential sector by sector. Canadian corporations deserve to better understand the dynamics in Africa and the opportunity present on the continent. Canada can also leverage its higher education to provide technical training and re-skilling to bridge the digital gap. Similarly, it is possible to capitalize on the African diaspora.

I was born in Cameroon, but I'm also proud to be Canadian. I was a recipient of the Banting fellowship for the best and brightest post-doctoral scholars. Canada has given me a phenomenal opportunity, and most Africans from the diaspora are grateful and willing to give back to Canada.

In conclusion, by acting promptly and forging transformative partnerships aligned with African values, Canada has the opportunity not only to advance its own interests, but to contribute to the transformation of Africa, whether in transport, logistics, pharmaceuticals, agriculture or automotive industry, among others.

I will pause now. I'm looking forward to a lively conversation.

Thank you so much again for offering me this opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Signé.

We now go to MP Epp.

You have five minutes for your questions.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today.

As has come out from several sectors, this testimony is showing that Canada is definitely behind. Just using one measure, trade, the U.S. has 1,800 deals in 49 countries and about $85 billion in trade. China has $257 billion—these are all 2022 numbers—and Canada, I believe, has around $9.4 billion in trade, so we have to play catch-up. This study is timely.

I am concerned—and I'm open to being challenged—that in our attempt to develop a strategy, we will become too broad-based.

I'll start with a question to both of you. Should Canada, as we develop this strategy, be focused and strategic or be much broader, trying to get to 54 countries and multiple sectors? There's trade, security and development. Where should we go for an overall approach?

Let's start with Professor Mandé, and then we'll go to Professor Signé.

[Issiaka Mandé]

That is a very interesting question, because Canada's expertise is recognized in certain African regions. It would be good to have a strategy that would take into account the investments made in certain regions, especially since Canada's expertise in certain industrial sectors is recognized.

I believe that a combination of both strategies would be the best approach. Obviously, spreading across 54 states is not the best way to go because that would spread resources too thin.

I go back to the fact that Africans already defined what they consider to be priority areas in Agenda 2063. Agenda 2063 sets seven expectations with clearly defined targets, including regarding infrastructure and roads.

Canada can take an interest in the road between Dakar and Djibouti or in rail lines, but we have seen that China, for example, has chosen to—

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt, but before I go to Professor Signé, I am going to ask one follow-up question. Where is that sweet spot, that intersection between the AU 2063 document and Canada's expertise? We have expertise in agriculture and the extractive industries. Where is that intersection with what Africans want?

Give a very short answer, if you can, so I can give Professor Signé an opportunity as well.

[Issiaka Mandé]

The intersection is in infrastructure and mines, which we know very well. For example, the Inga hydro dam is considered to be very important to meet energy needs and for the self-sufficiency of not only central Africa, but southern Africa as well.

Canada has expertise in that regard, with Hydro-Québec and Hydro One. That is a very high priority sector.

There are other elements—

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you. I'm sorry, but my time is limited and I want to be fair.

Go ahead, Professor Signé.

[Prof. Landry Signé]

Thank you so much.

It's an extremely important question. I think the focus should be trade and investment. African countries need more trade and investment, and I think that is what provides the best mutual interests between African and Canadian corporations, but also citizens.

Let me give a very specific example about the sector. The African Continental Free Trade Area is creating a single market, so now we are not speaking about 55 countries; we are speaking about one single market. As of now, 54 of the 55 members of the African Union have signed the African Continental Free Trade Area, so that's one dimension.

To be specific about some sectors, in the automotive industry, for example, Africa will need between four and five million vehicles by 2035, which means that about 20 additional full-size manufacturing plants could be created on the continent in the automotive industry only. Speaking about agriculture or the agri-industry, here, too, the market is projected to reach $1 trillion U.S. by 2030, and Canada also has a phenomenal advantage there. On transport and logistics, the continent will need, for African trade, approximately two million new trucks, 100,000 rail wagons, 250 aircraft and more than 100 vessels by 2030.

Those are areas where Canada has a sustained competitive advantage and where it is possible to start today, not tomorrow. It is possible to engage in deal engagement today. As long as we respect the rule of origin, starting in a given country means that the entire continent could deliver it.

I'm happy to expand on those. My latest book, Unlocking Africa's Business Potential, shares many of those trends.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to Madame Chatel.

You have five minutes.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our committee, Mr. Mandé and Mr. Signé.

Mr. Signé, I will continue along the same lines.

In your book Unlocking Africa's Business Potential, you indicate that agriculture is a sector of interest for those who want to increase commerce with the African continent. You also talk about risks.

Can you tell us about the risks related to the sectors that you mentioned?

Please be brief, because I have to more questions for you.

[Prof. Landry Signé]

Several risks have to be acknowledged when it comes to Africa. One of the most important ones is the political risk. In many countries, even those where it was least expected, there have been coups d'état and disruptions in the constitutional order. Risks of that nature must be taken into account when engaging in economic relationships in Africa.

There is also the issue of the cost of doing business, especially when it comes to infrastructure and transportation. These costs are variables that have to be considered. There are also administrative delays. The amount of documentation required to import or export anything is also a risk to be factored in.

Finally, there is the risk of default. There are possible solutions to these types of risks, however, like country risk insurance, that can address situations like these.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

You mentioned the African free-trade zone, stating that it had the potential to lift more than 30 million people out of extreme poverty. The World Bank even talks about 50 million people in its 2022 report. You also said that the free-trade zone could increase revenues.

What impact would increasing people's economic security have on the future of the continent regarding peace and security?

Would Africa become an environment favourable to prosperity?

Is that free-trade zone a solution that we should all support more strongly?

[Prof. Landry Signé]

Yes, absolutely.

First off, thank you. I am impressed that you have read some of my writings before this meeting. It is a great honour.

One of the founders of the Thunderbird School of Global Management said:

“Borders frequented by trade seldom need soldiers.”

That means that trade between two countries reduces the likelihood of conflict. I share that opinion.

On the one hand, to successfully implement a free-trade zone, it is important to have peace and security. Otherwise, investors will be less likely to participate.

On the other hand, strengthening relationships through trade reduces the likelihood of war or conflict, which is lowest when common interests are at stake.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I am nearing the end of my time and I wanted your opinion on another topic.

You have a wealth of experience in sustainable development. You have advised world leaders.

How would you qualify the impact of climate change on geopolitical stability in Africa?

[Prof. Landry Signé]

Climate change, if not a direct cause of geopolitical instability, has a major impact, especially in the Sahel region.

One of my colleagues and I published a paper on this in the Brookings Institution. I am also the main author of the recent report by the United Nations Development Programme, or UNDP, which explains the links between climate change and the sustainable development solution.

It is true that solving issues related to climate change will reduce the risk of conflict, among other things, because climate change has direct impacts, including on well-being and the availability of resources.

Thank you.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Professor Signé.

We next go to Mr. Perron.

You have five minutes, sir.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wish to thank both witnesses for being with us today. Thank you for making time for us.

Professor Mandé, you mentioned equal relationships and exchanges that would be beneficial to both parties. You also mentioned African immigration to Canada. We know that it can often create a disadvantage for one of the parties. Right now, for example, we are recruiting health care workers in Africa at a time when Africa is sorely lacking in these types of workers.

How could immigration policies be adjusted? Is that situation creating frustration in Africa?

How would you define a win-win immigration policy?

[Issiaka Mandé]

Thank you for the question. I also happen to be a “migratologist”.

Immigration and development, as we understand them today, should be wins both for the immigrant and the state that they are migrating from, because it has invested in the immigrant's education, and for the state that they are migrating to, because it is interested in the expertise brought to the community. That is how a win-win strategy should be considered.

As for the mobility of health care personnel, I would refer you to studies conducted by the World Health Organization that show that the answer is not to displace populations trained for the country of origin's community, but rather—as was done in Ghana and Zimbabwe—to have schools dedicated to training nurses for northern countries.

African countries and southern countries in general have their own public health strategies. People who are displaced from their home country have to be retrained when they come here. We need to have a strategy for training health care personnel destined for northern countries. There is no shortage of young African candidates.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much.

Regarding training and students in Canada, I want to talk about a specific issue with delivering student visas or study permits for francophone students from African countries. The refusal rate for these students is unusually high, which the government has actually acknowledged.

What has been the impact of this in Africa? Was this poorly received and did it create tensions, or have people adapted to the situation?