Foreign Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Genuis, you're out of time. Mr. Genuis—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order, Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I've reminded you on several occasions that you're out of time.

What is your point of order?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, witnesses at parliamentary committees have an obligation to answer questions. That applies to ministers as well as to members of the public. I asked a very direct question, and I'd like you to put to the minister that he has an obligation to provide a simple answer to a simple question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Genuis, I understand that the minister did respond to your question.

We have two minutes remaining.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is a false point of order. This is a figment—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Alghabra, you have two minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

We brought Kristian Firth before the bar for the same reason—because he wouldn't answer questions that were put to him.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here today.

This is, perhaps, a good segue to asking you this question, because there is a lot of posturing. Canadians, understandably, are asking this: What is the value of Canada's aid to people in need around the world? Why is it important that Canada plays a role around the world when people are in need?

I'll give you these two minutes to explain why Canadians should be proud of Canada's role.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

That's right. It's a point that's lost on the leader of the official opposition and the honourable member.

We need to—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Are you here to answer questions, or just to make partisan comments?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I am trying to answer the question.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is silliness. You're a minister of the Crown. Take your job seriously.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Perhaps you could refrain from interrupting.

Minister, go ahead, please.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I think I know my job better than you do, sir.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

But you don't.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes, I do.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Bill C-41—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Genuis, could you refrain from interrupting?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes, I do.

I wish you brought the same level of advocacy on international development to your leader, who wants to cut international development assistance in total.

International assistance and development are important for Canada. They are important because we live in partnership with the rest of the world. What happens in many parts of the world affects us, whether it's the loss of biodiversity, as I indicated earlier, or whether it is the deterioration of peace and security, instability, the proliferation of plastics or the lack of respect for human rights. All of these things impact us right here. It is absolutely in Canada's national interest to contribute to peace, security and development around the world. We are a trading nation. We thrive on access and engagement with the rest of the world, not withdrawing from the rest of the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Minister.

We now have three and a half minutes before the vote. As I understand it, the minister can stay with us only until 4:30.

I will now suspend, and we will resume as soon as the votes are counted. That should be in approximately 15 minutes or maybe 17 minutes from now.

Thank you very much, Minister.

The meeting stands suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll resume the meeting on estimates.

Once again, I want to thank the witnesses who are appearing before us. For the benefit of the members, I will once again identify all the officials who are here to answer our questions.

We're grateful to have here with us Christopher MacLennan, deputy minister for international development; Alexandre Lévêque, assistant deputy minister, Europe, Arctic, Middle East and Maghreb; Peter MacDougall, assistant deputy minister, global issues and development; Cheryl Urban, assistant deputy minister, sub-Saharan Africa branch; and Shirley Carruthers, chief financial officer.

Thank you all for being with us today.

We will now resume questions by the members. The first member up is MP Epp.

Go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

In his opening comments, the minister outlined the many different projects that are funded through your department. On average, how many “sign-offs” does it take to flow a project through a Canadian CSO or NGO?

[Christopher MacLennan]

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what the average number of sign-offs is. There could be numerous sign-offs depending on all the key elements that are required to put together a contribution agreement for a Canadian organization.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I wonder if you could table some background information on that.