Foreign Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2024

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Why haven't we seen any more business investment in that region? I know there's a lot of investment coming out of Europe in that region, out of Turkey and out of other countries.

Why is there no large amount of Canadian investment on the business side of things? Is it a lack of education? Is it a lack of security or just a lack of awareness? Would anyone like to comment?

[Prof. Maxime Allard, Director, Volunteer Cooperation Program, Fondation Paul Gérin-Lajoie]

I think all of that applies.

The lack of education is an issue. Businesses, even those that are fairly basic, need an educated population.

The rule of law, contract compliance and security are obviously also important, but we think that, in the long term, education is probably the most—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

That's not stopping European companies from investing in the region.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid you're out of time now. Thank you, Mr. Hoback.

We'll next go to MP Zuberi. You have three minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, Ms. Vandenbeld.

In the two minutes that I have, I'd like to talk about Sudan. Mr. Nickerson, you mentioned that a whole-of-government approach, a full suite of diplomatic tools, be used.

First off, I'm sure you're well aware that when it comes to Sudan, our government has given $132 million in aid and, to the Democratic Republic of Congo, $142 million. We're meeting the moment, but I completely agree with you that there's always much more to be done, and I respect fully the work that you and your organization have done in Sudan.

To meet the moment, we also have a program for those who are fleeing violence in Sudan. It's for 3,250 applications for those seeking refuge to come to Canada.

On the issue of diplomatic tools, do you want to elaborate a little bit on that as it relates to Sudan, in one minute?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

It's not possible for me to give you a particularly comprehensive answer here, but we have faced administrative blockages in everything from visas and travel authorizations to bringing in surgical supplies to parts of Khartoum, where we have been blocked and denied.

I want to acknowledge that Canada was one of the countries that spoke out with other donors pushing for these blockages to be alleviated, but I'm mentioning that, really, to give you a sense of the challenges of operating in this environment, and the reality that this is something quite practical and pragmatic that the international community, either as a group of donors or individually, needs to be speaking out about—that is valuable.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'll pass it to my colleague.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I know we're very short on time.

From what we're hearing, it's about two things. It's about the amount of funding but also the flexibility, the nimbleness, the false dichotomy between development and humanitarian aid and the triple nexus.

Canada has, since 2015, increased our ODA by 54%, and we've committed to continue doing that to 2030. We've just in the last budget, specifically for humanitarian crises, announced another $350 million.

I'm very happy, Dr. Nickerson, that you mentioned the DRC. The minister and I have both been to the DRC within the last four months. As was mentioned, we've increased that amount by $142 million as well as increased funds to Sudan.

Could you very quickly tell me, in addition to the amount of funding, what can we do to make it more flexible, more predictable and more long term, so that we can be more effective when we have to pivot and when a development issue becomes a humanitarian crisis and vice versa?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have 15 seconds, please.

Accept my apologies, but we're over time.

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

That's understood.

Some of this comes down to how organizations position themselves in these crises as well. We are a humanitarian organization that builds in emergency response capacity and that ability to pivot and scale up in those situations. Part of this is just about influencing the way that the humanitarian system operates and how the international development system operates as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Next we'll go to Mr. Bergeron.

You have three minutes, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

Earlier I mentioned the fact that we know how important Africa will be over the next few decades in terms of demographics, the economy and the Francophonie. We often tend to reassure ourselves that French is the language that will experience the most growth in the coming decades thanks to Africa.

You mentioned that Jean‑Louis Roy pointed out last week that this was not a given and that, for French to continue to gain ground in Africa, it will have to be taught to millions of schoolchildren.

That requires that there be schools and French instruction in those schools. If French is not taught in African schools, young people will definitely speak Wolof or Swahili, but probably not French.

We need to make an effort. As one of the previous witnesses rightly mentioned, France has been somewhat discredited in a number of francophone countries in Africa.

Is Canada missing the boat when it comes to focusing on education, particularly in French, in Africa?

[Prof. Maxime Allard]

Canada definitely has an advantage in terms of French given its bilingualism and its membership in the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the OIF.

At the Fondation Paul Gérin‑Lajoie, we work with the OIF on a variety of programs that include educational ones. Keep in mind that French is the second language of most Africans who go to school in French. We are working to ensure a smooth transition between their mother tongue and French, particularly through classes in the students' mother tongue at the early stages. When you start by teaching a child French at a very young age, they often experience some learning loss that is hard to make up afterward.

That said, should Canada position itself a little better? Probably. We have an opportunity right now, because of France's reputation, particularly in West Africa. In addition, Canada is seen as being benevolent in Africa's francophone countries, in general, and in West Africa, in particular.

There's probably an opportunity there.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

You are calling for Canada to maintain the 10% of the official development assistance budget that is allocated to education. You're even advocating for an increase, which I would agree with, but the evidence shows that it's well below 10% in some cases.

The most recent statistical report on Canada's international assistance in 2022‑23 shows that 4.23% of Canada's international assistance ended up going to education.

Do we set targets that we know we won't be able to meet?

[Marie-Pierre Nogarède]

As I mentioned today, I do think it is essential to set a target of at least 10% and to reach it.

Let's look at the situation from the opposite point of view. What will happen if Canada does not invest in education or does not invest enough in education?

The result will be that literacy rates will remain low and the skills needed to access well-paid jobs will be scarce. This will increase social and economic inequalities, perpetuate the cycle of poverty and social exclusion, contribute to political instability, create fertile ground for conflict, extremism—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to move to the next MP.

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

You have three minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Three minutes are very short and I'm going to jump in right away with you, Mr. Nickerson.

First, thank you for being here. It's nice to see you again.

You talked about the lessons learned with regard to vaccine equity, with regard to access to essential medicines. Have the lessons been learned by Canada? I mean, we haven't agreed to the TRIPS waiver. What has changed? If we have another COVID-19 tomorrow, would there be any difference in what would happen this time around?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

No, I don't think the lessons have been learned. This is a global issue, in the sense that access and affordability considerations are not being baked into the way that funding is being allocated for the development of things like vaccines and therapeutics.

One of the very clear lessons learned—and in fact, it's recommended in multiple reports from different parliamentary committees—is to include access and affordability provisions in funding agreements, in the funding provided for the development of vaccines and therapeutics, basically to say that if Canada is providing funding to develop a medicine, that medicine should be made affordable and accessible to Canadians and people around the world at reasonable and fair prices.

No, the lessons have not effectively been learned, and we continue to see massive inequity in access to things like vaccines, therapeutics and diagnostic tests in the places where we work.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

I know that there have been some efforts made to perhaps have vaccines manufactured in different areas around the world, but I don't believe that has proceeded to any great level at this point.

I've met with community members who are very worried about folks in the DRC. We know that the situation there is so dire in terms of getting support in there and in terms of dealing with the political implications and what's happening within the region.

Mr. Nickerson, what can you tell us about the DRC, and how can Canada help at this point?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

There is a funding consideration here. There is a dollar-and-cents problem. I'm not suggesting that Canada needs to be the only one that closes that gap, but we need to be honest about a reality that there needs to be a mobilization of donors. I think that is an area where Canada can play a significant role in not only being the funder but also mobilizing others to fund the humanitarian response.

The second thing, as I mentioned, is that people are subjected to incredible levels of violence, including sexual and gender-based violence. There needs to be a mobilization of diplomatic efforts to stop the perpetuation of violence against people. That's not something that we as humanitarians can do. We are there to provide medical assistance and to provide life-saving assistance to people in need, but I do think that as Canada is asking itself these questions of its role in the African continent, part of that obviously needs to be about effective diplomacy and the resolution of conflicts.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes, and peacebuilding.

Thank you very much.

I think that's my time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We next go to MP Aboultaif.

You have three minutes.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to leave one minute for my colleague, MP Epp.

Madame Nogarède, I was in Dakar in 2018 at the Global Partnership for Education, and Canada committed to a large fund at that time. How do you assess the Canadian commitment to that? How is it working for the countries that we have committed to and, if we were to do an assessment at this point, how impactful was that on education there?

[Marie-Pierre Nogarède]

Thank you for your question.

I think Canada's education commitments have had a significant impact. Over four million girls have benefited. These commitments have bridged the gap in access to education during times of conflict and crisis. However, these education systems are still fragile and are collapsing because of the growing effects of climate change and conflicts.

I also mentioned population growth in Africa. As a result, we really need to continue to invest massively in education. Despite considerable progress, there are growing needs, particularly in terms of qualified teachers and adequate infrastructure.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Doctors Without Borders, I have a question on the situation in Sudan. Your organization indicated that the United Nations needs to show more boldness when it comes to Sudan. In which areas do you believe that the involvement or the commitment has to be better? How can that be done and where is Canada in that?