Foreign Affairs Committee on March 24th, 2022

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I look forward to talking with Heather and her colleagues about this even more, and obviously talking with the different communities involved across the country.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you.

Colleagues, before we go to round two, just a brief reminder of the Board of Internal Economy guidelines on mask wearing and health: When you're not speaking or consuming beverages, please continue to wear your masks, as mandated in those rules.

We will now go to round two. Leading us off with a five-minute allocation is Mr. Genuis.

Please go ahead, sir.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

Does the government agreement with the NDP involve any commitments regarding foreign defence security or international development policy?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Are you confident that agreement will hold if the government chooses to increase defence spending?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

As I mentioned before, the world changed on February 24, and in that sense, as a government we will continue to deal with the crisis and face these challenges. I personally think we should increase military spending, and I support my colleague Anita Anand in this context.

We will have good conversations also with our opposition critics, and definitely Heather and I will continue to have these conversations.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I appreciate that you want to see defence spending go up. I didn't hear an answer to the question about whether you're confident the agreement will hold if that increase happens. You may have your reasons for not answering, so fair enough.

My next question is this. As much as the government says it's still thinking about banning Huawei, the long-running status quo by now is that there is no ban. Is the government's way of making a decision simply not making a decision?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Just to go back to your last question, it's difficult for me to answer a hypothetical question. You don't want a hypothetical answer, and I won't answer a hypothetical question. That being said, you have my answer.

The other thing also, regarding Huawei, is that you very much know this is under the purview of my colleague, François-Philippe Champagne, the Minister of Innovation. He will take a decision on this matter in the coming days and weeks.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

In the coming days and weeks, okay, that's encouraging. We'll be watching for that.

It seems to me that the Russian invasion of Ukraine demonstrates a failure of deterrence on the part of the western world. Many important actions have been taken since the invasion, but it is possible that more action prior to the invasion could have changed Putin's calculation.

What is your plan? What is Canada doing to ensure that we don't repeat this failure of deterrence with Taiwan? What are we doing to deter an invasion of Taiwan?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

There are a couple of things on that. Going back to Ukraine, our way right now to put maximum pressure on the Kremlin and the Russian regime is definitely to have more sanctions and make sure that there is also more legal aid sent to Ukraine. That has been what the Ukrainian government is asking for from us and from the G7, and that's what we are really coordinating together.

Meanwhile, we know that while we're doing this, which is at the core of the unity of the west, China is watching. Our expectation toward China as a member of the UN Security Council is that it won't do anything to escalate the conflict in Ukraine. Meanwhile, I have asked my diplomats to convey that position across the board in different multilateral fora, including in China.

Also, on the question of Taiwan, the minister of trade recently launched a free trade agreement with Taiwan, which is important, because there are strong people-to-people ties with Taiwan, and we think also that we can increase our trade with Taiwan.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

In the interest of time, though, could you speak specifically to the issue of deterring a possible invasion of Taiwan by the PRC?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Well, right now the unity of the west and the fact that we are protecting, through this unity, our strong stance on the importance of sovereignty and territorial integrity, are fundamental.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

We need to hear more on what the plan is with respect to that, Minister. That's an important thing for us to be discussing internationally.

I want to ask you one more question in the time I have. Do you believe that Canada experienced foreign interference by state or state-backed actors during the last federal election?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

This is a question much more under the purview of my colleague, the Minister of Public Safety, Marco Mendicino. It's part of his mandate letter.

Should that be the case, obviously, we would take strong action on that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

What is the government's current position with respect to whether or not the Chinese Communist Party is committing genocide?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We take the allegations of genocide very seriously, particularly in the Xinjiang Uighur region. That is one of the reasons that, first and foremost, we didn't send elected officials to the Beijing Olympics. It was to show our strong opinion in this regard.

When I was in Geneva a month ago, I had the chance to meet with Michelle Bachelet, who is the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. She has been investigating these very important allegations. She will be going to the region in the coming weeks, and I look forward to her report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Bendayan, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us today, Minister.

Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine has brought the issues relating to defence and Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic back to the forefront, as you said in your introduction. We know that this issue is only going to grow in importance.

I would like to ask you what your read of the present situation is, and I would like to know how it has evolved or changed because of the war in Ukraine.

Who do you think our allies are when it comes to protecting our sovereignty in the Arctic?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you for that very good question, Ms. Bendayan.

Obviously, we have to take what has happened in Ukraine, and the fact that we share a maritime border with Russia in the north, into account.

In normal times, discussions around Arctic sovereignty took place within the Arctic Council. However, since Russia chaired the Council this year, and our stated objective was to isolate that country diplomatically, politically and economically, we, along with all of the other members, have suspended our participation in the Council's work.

In the circumstances, it is important to work with the United States, because, obviously, protecting our continent is something we do together with the United States. That is why Ms. Anand is working on modernizing NORAD. It is also important that we be able to work with our Scandinavian colleagues, who are also members of the Arctic Council. I have had the opportunity to hold several discussions with our Danish, Finnish, Swedish and Norwegian colleagues on the subject, because I think we also have to make sure that we protect our sovereignty in the Arctic. Canada has always had very important claims relating to its sovereignty and territorial integrity in the Arctic.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Absolutely.

So you believe that the United States is our ally when it comes to our sovereignty in the Arctic.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It is certainly the case when it comes to the defence of our territory.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to come back to a question that was asked earlier by my colleague in the House, but which concerns me also.

Regarding Canadians who wanted to join the ranks of the International Legion of Defence of Ukraine, you said that this was an individual choice. I am in total agreement about that. However, as you know, the Foreign Enlistment Act makes it illegal for a Canadian to fight against a friendly foreign state, but the act does not include a definition or list of friendly foreign states.

How could this issue be clarified?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Obviously, we condemn any form of aid by Canadians to the Russians at this time. That is our position and it is the position I will be reiterating at every opportunity and on all platforms.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

So what about Ukraine?