Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Alexandre Lévêque]

You've identified a couple of the top priorities of the Government of Ukraine that are immediate and urgent, although some of them remain in the military domain.

Even at a ministerial conference a week ago in New York among G7 countries and Ukraine, the topic was energy. The number one thing that Ukraine was requesting was not generators or rebuilding the grid, but air defence, because, obviously, if you prevent attacks on the electric grid, you don't have to repair it as much afterward.

There are a number of countries that have the equipment to support this. We have provided money, but I don't have the exact details of the amounts and which organizations it has gone to, but I know that some of it has already been flowing and has been used to demine, particularly in the areas where rebuilding the electric grid is absolutely required.

Other than that, the biggest request for support has been in macroeconomic support, which I addressed earlier. The Government of Ukraine, which is already spending so much on reconstruction and on waging its war, still needs to keep its basic functions.

Last—and I'll just finish on this, Mr. Chair—it's inviting the private sector to invest. The last assessment was last March, and the assessment of the damage and the reconstruction needs was already at $486 billion, and that was six months ago. No government in the world can fund this kind of reconstruction. It's going to have to come through investment by the private sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now proceed to the second round. We will start off with Mr. Majumdar. You have four minutes, sir.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's an honour to be in the committee.

Four minutes is not a lot of time, so I'll start with some domestic questions.

What actions has the government taken to assert Canada's jurisdiction over Russian state assets in Canadian correspondent banks and investments via investments like Eurostar, Euroclear or other partnerships?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

In Canada, as you know, a number of entities of the Russian government are listed on our sanctions list, as is its central bank, so those assets are frozen in Canada because they are on the sanctions list.

Canada is working with G7 colleagues on how to leverage those frozen assets to—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Forgive me, but in the interest of time, may I ask you to table with the committee what actions the government has taken to assert Canadian jurisdiction over Russian assets, including through Euroclear, and the breakdown and total value of those assets? That's a source of information we around the table would benefit from to help us understand to what degree Canada has actually established jurisdiction over assets and Canadian currency through Euroclear and others.

In the next few minutes, I was hoping to take a step back and look at the geopolitical consequences of the region.

To what extent has Ukraine impacted the Russian navy in the Black Sea?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I'm sorry, but could you repeat the question?

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

To what degree has Ukraine impacted the Russian naval presence in the Black Sea?

[Alison Grant, Director General, International Security Policy and Strategic Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I think we've all seen, through the course of the war, that Ukraine has successfully been able to launch maritime attacks against Russian assets. They've taken a number of vessels out in the Russian Black Sea fleet, and we've seen a restationing of many of the Russian vessels outside the area of Crimea, further to the east.

Ukraine has definitely had an effect on the Russian Black Sea fleet and on Russia's ability to launch attacks from that theatre.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you.

Subsequently, Vladimir Putin had sent his foreign minister to Beirut to negotiate with the Lebanese as recently as the last 24 hours.

To what degree do Russia and Hezbollah co-operate in the Mediterranean Sea?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I cannot say that we have any information or have seen any evidence of co-operation, certainly not security-wise or militarily, in the Mediterranean Sea between Russia and terrorist groups.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Can we verify that is the Mediterranean theatre—Lebanon and Syria?

[Alison Grant]

As Alexandre has mentioned, I can't speak to a direct connection between Hezbollah and Russia. We have been tracking very closely the earlier Iranian supply of ballistic missiles and drones to Russia, and that's of deep concern to us. We have taken several actions against that move by Iran.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Iran, which backs Hamas and Hezbollah, co-operates with Russia in the Mediterranean theatre as much as Russia collaborates with Iranian equipment in the Ukrainian theatre. These geographies are only separated by about an hour or two. They're not far from each other.

In the last minute, Alison, I'd like to ask you for your perspective.

Do our allied interests understand the common threat the collaboration between Russia and Iran poses, not just to Ukraine but to stability in the wider Middle East region?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You can respond very briefly, because we're out of time.

[Alison Grant]

In Brussels, our allies do speak about this. We receive briefings on it. There are regular discussions at the North Atlantic Council level about the larger threat that Russia poses in the Euro-Atlantic region, but also outside of it, because threats know no borders. That's well understood in Brussels. These issues are being discussed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We next go to MP Oliphant. You have four minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you to all of you for the work you do every day, and also for reminding the committee that you can do two things at once, if not 22 things at once. It's appreciated. The world is a messy place, and I know that Ukraine and the people of Ukraine remain very much at the top of your mind.

As I look at the desire we all have for peace as an overarching thing, Canada has supported Ukraine with reform efforts. Right after Crimea, there was significant training of military staff as well as ongoing support to continue democracy, and military support since Russia's illegal invasion, which has been profound, and macroeconomic support such as sovereign loans, etc., for the maintenance of government as usual. We'll continue to do that. I think it's important to continue to assert that. Some of that is done through partners, and some of it's done directly, such as through sovereign loans, etc.

Could you opine on what peace would look like for Russia and what peace would look like for Ukraine, from what they have told us?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Thank you for the question. It is rather a large one, and fundamental. Perhaps I can start with what Canada sees as the just path to peace.

This war was an unprovoked war, a war that violated what every country through international law and the UN charter recognized as legitimate borders of Ukraine. Any just peace is one that must go through the re-establishment of territorial integrity on Ukraine's terms, the withdrawal of Russian troops, and, ultimately, reparation.

We haven't spoken too much today about reparation. We've talked about the costs that collectively we are trying to impose on Russia for its aggression. However, the level of destruction—not to speak about the opportunity costs of the development Ukraine would have pursued had it not been for this horrendous war—is also part of the equation.

Canada is contributing to a number of fora where calculating the reparation and calculating the damage that is imposed on Ukraine will all be part of what we see as a just end to this war. Ultimately, it is up to Ukraine to determine the terms it is prepared to accept as an end to this war. The commitment this government has made is to support Ukraine as long as possible so that it attains this level of satisfaction in finishing the war.

As for Russia, it clearly wants to steal territory. It wants to continue occupying parts of Ukraine and to consider it sovereign Russian territory. We don't have an active dialogue with Russia, as you know. We have extremely limited diplomatic bilateral and multilateral contact. To the best of our assessment, what we can assess is that Russia will want to retain some of the territory it invaded before calling this a win from their point of view.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

Is that it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have six seconds remaining, so thank you.

We now go to Mr. Bergeron. You have two minutes, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would have liked to talk about other delays in the supply of weapons to Ukraine, but since my time is limited, I will move on to another topic.

In early September, Mongolia became the first state party and signatory of the Rome Statute to welcome Vladimir Putin, even though he is the subject of an arrest warrant from the International Criminal Court.

What was Canada's reaction and what message did Canada send to its Mongolian counterparts about Mongolia's failure to comply with its obligations under the Rome Treaty?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Thank you for the question.

I can reiterate Canada's strong commitment to the International Criminal Court and its expectation that any member, when made aware of an arrest warrant, complies with the principles of the International Criminal Court.

You can imagine that, behind closed doors, messages were conveyed, before and after the fact, to encourage Mongolia to act in accordance with the court's wishes. However, each state obviously follows its own strategy and each sovereign state makes its own decisions.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

We seem to have a policy based on geography. Obviously, we understand the geographic situation in Mongolia, which may have led to the decision that was made.

That said, states like Canada are expected to remind all members of the international community of their obligations under international law.

Thank you, Mr. Lévêque.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

We now go to Madame McPherson. You have two minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again to the witnesses.

I'm going to follow up on some of the questions that Mr. Bergeron was just asking with regard to the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court systems.

My understanding is that Canada has contributed to the ICC and ICJ for the prosecution of those responsible for the thefts of children. That is the predominant case that we are supporting.

Can you explain to me how the funding to the ICC and ICJ works? Are those funds directed specifically to that, or are they directed towards the support of the international justice system writ large?