Evidence of meeting #117 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alexandre Lévêque  Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Marie-Josée Langlois  Director General, Sanctions Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Alison Grant  Director General, International Security Policy and Strategic Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 117 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. All witnesses have completed the required audio tests in advance of our meeting.

I'd like to remind the participants, whether they be members or witnesses, to please wait until I recognize them by name before they speak. All comments should be addressed to the chair.

Also, we have the list of members who'd like to ask questions.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee will continue its study of the war in Ukraine.

I'd like to remind members that the officials will be with us today until noon. Unfortunately, no additional witnesses could confirm their appearance for today's meeting.

I'd now like to take this opportunity to welcome our distinguished witnesses.

From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Mr. Alexandre Lévêque, the assistant deputy minister for the Europe, Middle East and Arctic branch.

We have Ms. Alison Grant, the director general of international security policy and strategic affairs bureau. We also have Ms. Marie-Josée Langlois, the director general of the sanctions bureau.

Mr. Lévêque, I understand your opening remarks are for 10 minutes. The floor is yours, after which we will open it up to the members for questions. Please do look at me every once in a while. Once you see this signal, it means you should be wrapping it up within 15 seconds.

All of that having been explained, Mr. Lévêque, the floor is yours, and you have 10 minutes.

Alexandre Lévêque Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

You'll be glad to hear that I'll be well under 10 minutes for my opening remarks.

Mr. Chair, esteemed members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to speak today about the situation in Ukraine.

My remarks will focus on Canada's key diplomatic measures and response to Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine.

From the onset, and in the 950 days since the invasion, Canada has unequivocally condemned Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine.

We remain firmly committed to the fundamental principles of Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, including its territorial waters.

Accordingly, Canada will continue to support Ukraine both bilaterally and through international co-operation within the G7, NATO, the OSCE and the United Nations, and in any other forums where we can exercise influence. We remain steadfast in this commitment.

Canada is actively working to implement the 10‑Point Peace Formula developed by the Ukrainian government, a plan that upholds Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, the UN charter and international law. Through this initiative, Ukraine has mobilized support from the international community, including emerging and developing economies. All of these efforts seek to provide a framework for a potential peace settlement on Ukraine's terms.

Canada's commitment to this initiative has included co-chairing the Peace Formula's Working Group No. 4 alongside Ukraine and Norway, focusing on the return of prisoners of war, unlawfully detained civilians and deported children. At the Summit on Peace in Ukraine held on June 15 and 16, 2024 in Bürgenstock, Switzerland, the Prime Minister chaired a discussion session on this human aspect of the war and announced that Canada would host a ministerial conference on the issue in Canada at the end of October.

Canada also co-chairs, with Ukraine, the International Coalition for the Return of Ukrainian Children, which now includes 40 member states. Launched in Kyiv on February 2 of this year, during Minister Joly's most recent visit to Ukraine, the coalition coordinates efforts and co-operation between Ukraine and partner states to address the illegal deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children by the Russian Federation.

The issue of Ukrainian children who have been illegally deported, forcibly transferred or displaced in other ways is complex and requires greater global attention. Experts agree that thousands of children have been deported to Russia or transferred to temporarily occupied territories.

Canada and Ukraine have signed a number of important bilateral agreements that reflect a growing collaboration, especially in the context of the war in Ukraine. For example, Canada has signed a historic bilateral security co‑operation agreement with Ukraine to establish a strategic security partnership. This agreement builds on the G7 Joint Declaration of Support for Ukraine and outlines Canada's key long-term security commitments to continue supporting Ukraine in defending its sovereignty and territorial integrity, protecting its people and pursuing Euro-Atlantic integration.

Another example is the Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement, which was signed in 2017. An updated version was signed in 2023 and came into force on July 1 of this year. This agreement aims to boost economic trade between the two countries by covering sectors such as agriculture, industrial production and services, while focusing on long-term economic development and rebuilding of Ukraine after the war.

In total, Canada has committed over $19.5 billion in financial, military, humanitarian, development, security, stabilization and immigration assistance in response to Russia's full-scale invasion on February 24, 2022.

Canada's response also includes sanctions. Since 2014, Canada has imposed sanctions on more than 3,000 individuals and entities in Russia and Belarus, as well as in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine and Moldova, for their complicity in violating the sovereignty and territorial integrity of these countries, as well as for gross and systematic human rights abuses.

It is first and foremost up to Ukraine to decide how it defends itself and its people. Canada supports increased co‑operation between the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO, and Ukraine, through platforms such as the NATO-Ukraine Commission and enhanced NATO assistance measures.

We will continue to advocate for Ukraine's accession to the alliance as soon as conditions permit.

Canada supports the stability, security and sovereignty of Ukraine as it resists Russia's war of aggression. We are committed to contributing to Ukraine's recovery and reconstruction.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi

Thank you very much, Mr. Lévêque.

We will now open it to questions from the members.

For the first round, each member will have five minutes. We'll start with Mr. Hoback.

Mr. Hoback, the floor is yours.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here this morning.

We've seen a lot of financial commitments to Ukraine from this government. I'm just going to drive down to see exactly how much has actually been delivered.

I'll start off with the $5 billion for the G7 extraordinary revenue acceleration loans.

Can you tell me how much of that $5 billion has actually now hit the ground and what sectors that money has gone to, roughly?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

Thank you for the question.

I believe all of it has been disbursed. I would have to double-check, so I can come back to you.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Can you provide us a list of the first two—how it's been disbursed and the amount that's been disbursed? Can you give us that?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

That I can answer, because this goes toward the support of Ukraine's balance sheet. Through various organizations like the IMF and the World Bank, we support the daily operations of the Ukrainian government. That's what that money is dedicated to.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

It would be great if you can get us that.

We announced $15 million for support of vulnerable children and youth at risk, improved access to justice, increased family and civil society awareness for missing persons and support for male survivors of conflict-related sexual violence.

Can you give us a breakdown of percentages of how much of that $15 million is going to each of those categories? Is the majority going into one category versus the others?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

I don't have the breakdown with me.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Can you get us that breakdown, please?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

Of course, sir.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

We committed $20 million to their electricity grid and their infrastructure.

How much of that has hit the ground, and where is that going?

11:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

That is going essentially to multilateral funds. Basically, we pool these resources. The EU in particular has set up a large fund.

For maximum efficiency, we contribute to that fund so that it can be disbursed directly into the energy infrastructure relief structure.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

How do you find accountability in that massive fund? If it's a big fund, how does Canada make sure that the $20 million actually hits the ground?

Again, has that $20 million actually flowed out of the Canadian coffers into the fund?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

On that last question on where the money stands in the cycle, I'm going to have to come back and provide the answer in writing.

In terms of accountability, the first thing we do is work with very trusted partners. We have control mechanisms in our financial sector or financial—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Is there a Canadian overseeing their part of the fund?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

Do you mean on the ground?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

No. As you said, you've created this bigger fund. Is a Canadian part of the decision-making process of how the money is being spent?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

It depends on each fund. We do have, for example, for the Ukraine donor platform, a Canadian dedicated and seconded to the secretariat. We have direct eyes on this. A lot of the clearance, the control measures, happens in Ottawa before the money even gets disbursed.

As I said, when you deal with the IMF, the World Bank and the European Union, you're dealing with trusted interlocutors, trusted partners, who also have their own internal mechanisms in place.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

We look at $15.4 million for IMF for Ukraine's capacity to safely clear the territory of mines and the Government of Canada's technical assistance to Ukraine's government in justice and energy sectors. To me, it sounds similar to what we just committed the other $15 million for and what you described as funds going to the IMF or bigger organizations or trusted partners.

Are these the same dollars? Are these new dollars? How do we know, for example, that they will be used for mine clearing? How do we know the funds actually went to that commitment?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

I can assure you that there's no double-counting there. There have been multiple rounds, multiple decisions, to constantly come up with new ways, new monies, to support Ukraine in various ways. These announcements are made cumulatively. They're not the same amounts that have been reannounced.

On where the disbursement stands exactly, we can come back to you in writing.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

It's kind of deceiving to say the Canadian government has committed this money to Ukraine; actually, we committed it to a fund that's helping Ukraine. Canada by itself is not administering any of these funds; we're just giving to a bigger fund made up of other countries that are then contributing.

Is that fair to say?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

Actually, the vast majority of the support to Ukraine has been in macroeconomic support. It is administered by large, trusted organizations, like the IMF, to lower the cost of administration. They're basically the ones ensuring the controls on how the Ukrainian government spends it. It's not like there's a percentage that comes off the top. The money goes directly to help the Ukrainian government.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

The perception is that it's going directly to Ukraine. The perception given by the Prime Minister to Canadians is that this money is actually going directly to Ukraine. In reality, it's something totally different. It's going to an EU bureaucracy that's administering the fund.

Is that fair to say?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Middle East and Arctic Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Alexandre Lévêque

I would have to disagree with this statement, Mr. Chair. It does go to Ukraine. It is administered through other international organizations for the sake of efficiency and to ensure transparency and accountability.