Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Sure. That's fine. We can adjust it.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Next we go to Ms. Diab.

Welcome to the committee. You have six minutes.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank members for allowing me to come in for the hour. I am of Lebanese origin.

First, thank you very much for being here to brief us parliamentarians on something that is so significant and so important to many of us but also on the historical perspective between Canada and Lebanon. I very much appreciate your opening remarks. This year we celebrate 70 years of diplomatic relations between Canada and Lebanon. Furthermore, Lebanese people have been in Canada since the 1880s. It's been 140 years, so these relations are not happening overnight. It's been a long-standing and, I would say, very good relationship.

I want to also give a shout-out here, which people have asked me to do, to Middle East Airlines, the only commercial airline that has continued to stand tall and assist people in either leaving, coming in or bringing food or anything to Lebanon at the airport. Thank you to Middle East Airlines.

I also want to give a shout-out to the assisted departure that Canada has helped in. In fact, it has helped some of my constituents who made it out and did come back to Halifax. Thank you for that.

I want to go to diplomacy, which you hinted at, and to United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701. I'm sure there are many of them. Where do you see Canada? What else can Canada do to bring peace and bring a resolution and help Lebanon get back its independence and sovereignty? I want to give you an opportunity to tell me what else Canada can do.

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Thank you for the question.

The first thing I would say in answer to that is that Canada's role in Lebanon, or anywhere in the world for that matter, will always be stronger and more effective when we can act with a large number of partners. In the context of multilateral....

You mentioned resolution 1701. These days, resolution 1701 has been violated by just about every party along and on either side of the Blue Line. Our efforts, diplomatically, are about engaging like-minded partners in as wide a coalition as possible to blow some winds in the sails of these resolutions and to give them as many teeth as possible.

However, to be honest, this is not a situation where we're just starting to step up and realize that Lebanon needs assistance. We have been partners for a very long time. I alluded in my opening remarks to the fact that we've been a development partner of Lebanon's for a long time. We've consistently been among the top five donors in Lebanon.

This is for both security programming.... We've been supporting the Lebanese Armed Forces, providing it with equipment and training. We've provided a lot of development assistance by way of economic and social programming. In particular, this year, a lot has been done in the humanitarian field. You will have seen, of course, the latest call just a couple of weeks ago, when we announced a matching fund for two major Canadian humanitarian organizations.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Minister Joly is currently in Paris with President Macron, and I understand things are coming out of that. I haven't really had a chance yet to view them.

Again, you mentioned that Canada needs to act with its other partners. Obviously, France is a key one. It's certainly key for Lebanon as well, as are other nations. Can you tell us a bit about that?

What else can we do? I appreciate the humanitarian assistance and I appreciate the matching fund. All of those are important, but I'm looking for what else we can do, which is what my constituents are also asking me.

[Alexandre Lévêque]

That's an excellent question.

The reference to the Paris ministerial meeting that just wrapped up two or three hours ago is a good hook, because France's desire with that conference was, first of all, to put a spotlight on the situation and, in particular, to rally a number of countries to do more to support the Lebanese Armed Forces.

The fact of the matter is that the southern part of Lebanon is largely occupied by Hezbollah forces. That is obviously the part that Israel is at war with. Israel does not want war with Lebanon. Israel is in a fight with Hezbollah and has gone further and deeper into the country to fight Hezbollah bases and centres of operation.

One of the things that we, as the international community, really want to do is reinforce the role, the training and the capacity of the Lebanese Armed Forces so that it can substitute Hezbollah forces in southern Lebanon. If that substitution were to take place and the Lebanese Armed Forces could be entrusted to guarantee security in the southern part of the country, Israel would feel much greater security. That could lead to a political process, better diplomacy and eventually negotiations on border demarcation.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I appreciate that.

I don't know if I'm out of time—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Ms. Diab, you're out of time.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Okay. That's great.

I wanted to go to a humanitarian question, but thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Next, we go to Mr. Bergeron. You have six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to the officials from Global Affairs Canada for being with us today and enlightening us on the situation and Canada's response. I think our objective here is not to try to back anyone into a corner, but to get a clear understanding of the situation.

Earlier, my colleague Michael Chong made a comparison with the figure from 2006, when we evacuated approximately 15,000 people. In the situation before us today, 1,200 people were assisted or evacuated, if I understand correctly.

What was the rationale for evacuating 15,000 people in 2006, and why wouldn't that rationale be just as valid today?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

The rationales are very similar. Obviously, the security situation is very different. There are significant and fundamental differences between the two crises, but the government is still responsible for its citizens, and the same rationales apply.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'll rephrase my question.

How is it that the government felt in 2006 that the situation was critical enough in Lebanon to proceed with the emergency evacuation of 15,000 people and does not seem to consider the current situation critical enough to organize the evacuation of an equally large, if not larger, number of Canadian nationals?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I understand your question better.

The answer is essentially that, at the time the evacuation was launched in 2006, there was no way for Canadian nationals to leave Lebanon on commercial transportation. As my colleague Mr. Beaulieu explained, dozens, if not hundreds, of flights a day are leaving Beirut right now.

The port and the airport are operational. Central transportation networks still exist and are operational, so everyone can leave the country by commercial means, which is more economical as well as safer.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you. That is very enlightening.

When you appeared before our committee for the study of Canada's sanctions regime, you explained that the ultimate objective of the regime is to effect a change in the behaviour of the offending party, but also to constrict its ability to act financially and economically.

I fear that Canada has a problem when it comes to credibility and consistency. It cited respect for the rule of law, the rules of international law and the sovereignty of states as a reason to stand up for Ukraine when Russia engaged in illegitimate, illegal and unjustified aggression against sovereign Ukrainian territory. However, it is less vocal about Israel's violation of the sovereignty of Lebanon, a member state of the United Nations.

Wouldn't it be appropriate to put sanctions in place to, as you put it, effect a change in the behaviour of the offending party and constrict its ability to act financially and economically?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The two situations the member just mentioned are comparable in some respects, but there are also some limits.

It's also important to keep in mind the concept of self-defence. It is entirely legitimate for a country to defend itself against attacks on its territory.

I'll remind you that Hezbollah, in support of Hamas, launched hundreds of missiles and shells into Israeli territory the very next day, October 8, 2023. A year and a few months later, thousands of shells, missiles and drones have been launched into Israeli territory. That's why I'm saying the two situations are not the same.

The fact that Israel felt the need to attack positions in southern Lebanon, which the Lebanese armed forces do not control, is part of self-defence. Israel was trying to push back Hezbollah, which poses a constant threat and is preventing the return of 60,000 to 80,000 Israelis living close to the border with Lebanon.

Now, what the government has pointed out on a number of occasions is that it has to be done with restraint and always with a view to sparing civilians as much as possible. That is one of the messages you've heard repeatedly from the government and in a number of national and multilateral media releases.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I think those clarifications are very appropriate. That said, at the moment, Israel is launching attacks not only on southern Lebanon, but also all the way to the Lebanese capital, and attacks are now spreading to the north of the country—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron, you're out of time. If you could ask a very quick question, we'll receive a quick response.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Don't you think there's a danger that Israel wants to create a buffer zone on the sovereign territory of Lebanon, once again violating the rules of international law?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

That is a risk. It's a very fluid situation that changes from day to day. We can assure you that we will study the matter very closely before taking a position.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We'll now go to MP McPherson, for six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to start by saying that my sympathies are with you, Ms. Diab and Mr. El-Khoury, and all of those Lebanese Canadian and Lebanese people who are suffering right now. I know how worried the community is. I know how worried you are for your loved ones and for the country of Lebanon. I wanted to express that.

I also want to make it very clear that what Hezbollah and Hamas are doing is obviously terrorist. They are obvious terrorist organizations, and they are, obviously, being armed by another terrorist entity, which is the Iranian regime. That said, I have some questions about the behaviour of Israel. The Financial Times has reported that Israel has used the incendiary chemical white phosphorus in attacks on a UN base, which has injured 15 peacekeepers.

Can you confirm these reports?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

We have read the same open source reports.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Have you asked governments whose peacekeepers were injured whether they can confirm whether these attacks on their peacekeepers involved banned weapons?