Evidence of meeting #123 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was israel.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you to witness for being here for this critical study about how we, as a country, can implement our policy to recognize the two-state solution and actualize it.
My first question will be for Professor Imseis.
What criteria, in your view, would allow Canada to get to the point where we can recognize the state of Palestine and actualize a two-state solution?
Dr. Ardi Imseis
Thank you.
It's international law. That's very clear. That's the criterion.
It certainly isn't democracy, because that's subjective among different states. All states agree that the governing principle of how they should relate to one another is international law. International law already determined that Palestine juridically exists. As I said, the 1933 Montevideo convention criteria are met, as recognized by 149 states.
Canada just needs to exercise its political will to recognize that fact.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Some say the recognition on Canada's end would be symbolic, but others argue it would actually help save lives.
Can you opine about that? How would this help save lives?
Dr. Ardi Imseis
It wouldn't be symbolic. When one state recognizes another, a corollary of that is this: They recognize their right to political independence and territorial integrity.
That would require a change in the policy Canada has vis-à-vis the occupying power. Israel's physical presence in every inch of occupied Palestine is unlawful. When Canada recognizes the state of Palestine, the position of Canada must necessarily be that Israel must withdraw from the occupied state of Palestine, as per international law—the sole criterion all states agree they should abide by.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
We have one minute left.
With respect to Canada, we are a G7 country, and many of our EU allies and partners have recently recognized the state of Palestine.
As a G7 country, if and when we do recognize the state of Palestine, how would that impact the world stage and other actors?
Dr. Ardi Imseis
Certainly, Canadians are among the last to recognize it. Ideally, you would have a snowball effect, much like you do with most any recognition of most any country.
However, it would certainly help peace in the Middle East. If you claim to have a two-state solution as a policy, and that is the global consensus around which Middle East peace is envisioned, recognition of one-half of that two-state framework makes no sense. This does not mean other matters don't need to be dealt with between the two parties. It just means the parties should be on an equal footing, at least juridically, at the negotiating table—if indeed that's what it comes down to, in the end.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you.
That concludes the scheduled questions. However, I want to point out to the members that MP Morrice has been patiently here for two hours.
Is it the will of committee members to allow him three minutes to ask a question?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much, everyone.
MP Morrice, please proceed.
You have three minutes.
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, colleagues.
It's baffling to me that Canada states it wants a lasting peace and supports a two-state solution, but it won't even recognize one of the two states.
Professor Imseis, I want to read you a quote by our Minister of Foreign Affairs. I'd love to hear what your response would be to her when she says, “We are working with our like-minded countries to make sure that we identify what are the conditions for (the) right time”.
What is your response to that?
Dr. Ardi Imseis
The conditions are set out in international law, specifically the 1933 Montevideo convention relating to the rights of states. Palestine has a population. It has a fixed territory. It has a government that is capable. It also has the ability to conduct foreign relations.
Those facts satisfy statehood in international law. Palestine is recognized by 149 other states. Get on with it.
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you for that. You've been very clear.
We also have Canada's foreign policy dictated as the following, with respect to Palestinian statehood: “Canada is prepared to recognize the State of Palestine at the time most conducive to lasting peace”. This is, again, wording that doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
What is your sense? What is “the time most conducive to lasting peace”?
Dr. Ardi Imseis
It is yesterday.
We know from the facts before us, as established in the United Nations record—including the ICJ's record—that the occupying power is acting in bad faith and illegally. It said openly, and its legislature said very clearly, that there will be no Palestinian state.
If you're waiting for them to change their minds, it's not going to happen. That's why third states need to recognize the state of Palestine, as a holding operation in order to make sure the occupying power ceases and desists. It's a preservation move.
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Professor.
I will get in one last question.
You also said at this committee that recognizing Palestinian statehood is “the least that Canada can do”, and you've spoken quite a bit about what's necessary with respect to the occupied Palestinian territories.
Can you share more? We're talking about Palestinian statehood and a lasting peace. What are the implications if we want a lasting peace, as it relates to the occupied Palestinian territories?
Dr. Ardi Imseis
The implications are that Canada needs to treat these parties fairly, equally and equitably, as per international law. Israel has rights, including the right to territorial integrity and political independence, but Israel is not Palestine. Israel in Palestine is not Israel, and Canada needs to be very clear about that.
The recognition of the state of Palestine has no implication on Israel at all because Palestine is Palestine. If you recognize the United States, does that have an implication on Taiwan? No, because Taiwan is not the United States. It's self-evident. This stuff is so clear, and international law backs it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Excellent. That concludes our questions.
Professor Antonius, Professor Imseis and Professor Momani, we're very grateful for your testimony. Thank you for graciously taking all the questions that were thrown at you by the members. We're very grateful.
The meeting is adjourned.