Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I was over the time.

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Could you repeat the beginning of the question?

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I was talking about the Palestinian Authority, which is currently going through a reform process. I was asking you to tell me about this reform and its repercussions.

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Once again, this is a matter for the political arena rather than the legal circle. On the other hand, I can give you a figure for the number of states that have recognized the State of Palestine. At present, there are 145 out of 193.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

In the report, we'll have more details on those who—

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

There will be details on the list of countries. We'll provide you with that.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

This is a very important figure.

Thank you.

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll go next to Mr. Bergeron. You have a minute and a half, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'll start with a political comment that will take us into legal territory.

Some say that what's damaging Canada's credibility internationally is the fact that it's not consistent when it comes to applying international law.

Earlier, reference was made to the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice. Canada has made a point of defending the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, and I'm on board, but has been much more reserved in denouncing Israel's aggression against Lebanon.

In your opinion, legally speaking, is Canada consistent with its position on Ukraine?

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his question.

International law guarantees Israel the right to defend itself against attacks. This is enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The attacks on Israel, which came from Lebanon, justify Israel exercising this right to self-defence. So, that—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

In the north of the country? As far as northern Lebanon?

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

It's from southern Lebanon all the way to northern Israel. So it's on this basis that—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

The attacks go all the way to northern Lebanon, don't they?

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

The exercise of the right to self-defence has no geographical limit linked to the actual source of the attacks. It is up to the country exercising the right to self-defence to determine what is necessary, what is proportional and what is—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

You say “proportional”. That's interesting.

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Yes.

It's part of the principles of the right to self-defence—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

That's interesting.

Do you consider this reaction to be proportional?

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Being a lawyer from Canada, it would not be appropriate for me to express an opinion on what is proportional and necessary on the part of a third country. Furthermore, I don't have access to all the information, to all the information that Israel would have at its disposal to make the necessary decisions, to make the right decisions to exercise its right to self-defence.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Aumais.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Madam McPherson, you have a minute and a half.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I hope you're as generous with your minute and a half as you were with my colleague's. Thank you.

I'm curious about some of the comments that you've made, but there's one thing I want to start with. Legally, the State of Palestine already exists. I think it's important that we do recognize here that Palestine exists; what we're talking about right now is Canada's recognition of Palestine. The state exists, so we are not creating a state. This is not what we're talking about. It's the recognition by Canada.

You talked about the right to defence, so I have some questions for you on the right to defence being a legal ability. What about the attacks on UN workers? What about collective punishment? We also know that innocent civilians have the right to not be punished for the behaviours of terrorists within their realm.

Would you say, for example, that Israel's response in Gaza, where we have seen tens of thousands of innocent lives lost, is within Israel's right to defence, or do you think that it is collective punishment and has strayed beyond the right to defence into a war crime and, I would argue, a genocide?

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

Mr. Chair, I will take the questions one by one.

On the issue of recognition of a state, what is available for Canada to do is to make a decision as to whether it sees a new state in front of it with which it can have state-to-state relations—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That doesn't mean that the state doesn't exist; it is just Canada's recognition of it.

[Louis-Martin Aumais]

“It's just Canada's recognition.” It is Canada's recognition. It is a significant decision by the state of Canada. Until such time as Canada recognizes a new state, from Canada's perspective, there is no recognition of a new state. Notwithstanding what other states or organizations, as I mentioned in my preliminary statement, may have decided with respect to that entity, it doesn't bind Canada. It's up to Canada to make its own sovereign decision on that matter—