Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Can you be specific about any provisions Canada has taken since April 2003 to ensure, again, that Canadian taxpayers' money that has been given, supposedly to help and support the less fortunate in Haiti, is not contributing to money laundering, by any chance? I would like to hear that, for the record, to make sure we know exactly what measures Canada has taken. Also, I need some more evidence on that, if you don't mind.

[Sylvie Bédard]

We've talked enough about sanctions with regard to the 31 individuals who belong to the Haitian political and economic elite. In addition, Canada is the biggest contributor to the trust fund in support of the multinational security support mission for Haiti. Canada has contributed more than $6 million to that fund, which supports various reforms, such as the Unité de lutte contre la corruption, in Haiti. That organization closely monitors the allegations of corruption that are made against certain persons in Haiti, and it is responsible for conducting the necessary investigations.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

In the past six years of training, what we call “peacekeeping” missions.... Unfortunately, the impression is that Canada ended up training cartel members. How are we making sure that we don't repeat this mistake? That is where we're going, whether through the aid we give and the training we give, or if we're going to be part of a peacekeeping mission—although China believes that there is no peace to keep there.

[Sylvie Bédard]

Mr. Chair, I discussed the group that Canada directs and that coordinates assistance to the Haitian National Police. One of the biggest priorities established with regard to that coordination group was to initiate Canada's co-operation by setting up an office responsible for screening candidates wishing to take the training offered to members of the Haitian National Police. That office has been operational since April 2023.

In addition, the RCMP has offered polygraph training to members of the Haitian National Police. Participants in various police training courses must first be screened by means of a polygraph test. The aim is precisely to ensure that they aren't lower-rank members of criminal groups. Those two measures that have been taken have changed the situation regarding the selection of candidates wishing to take part in training programs.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Next we go to Mr. Oliphant for five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up on the question that Ms. McPherson raised. I think it's really important. I wasn't sure I was liking where we're going on this. I want to raise the issue very specifically of Médecins Sans Frontières and the closing of its operations yesterday but also, generally speaking, of those who are helped by Canada to provide support in that.

We got down a hole there about training. I don't want to go down that hole about training because these are people who we in Canada call peace officers. These are police forces. These are people who are there to protect the people that Canada has spent a lot of time and money training, supporting and engaging.

They're threatening to kill Médecins Sans Frontières staff. They pull ambulances over and threaten to kill the patients. They threaten to kill patients in hospitals.

Médecins Sans Frontières acts every day in countries all around the world, facing extreme danger. That's what they do, and we support them in doing that. I personally support them in doing that, but not for them to get attacked by police officers in uniform, SWAT officers in uniform, and ununiformed police officers.

I'm not buying the training discussion. Help us unravel this. What could Canada do? What should we do? What can we do with our partners? This is extraordinary; this is not normal.

[Shalini Anand]

We agree. This is an extraordinary and very gravely concerning situation. Clearly, there are some bad actors within the HNP.

We won't go back down the training spiral, as you noted, but it is one of the ways that we have been working closely with allies to try to get out ahead of this kind of behaviour and prevent these types of individuals from being a part of the HNP in the first place, so we can avoid these types of bad actors as part of the HNP.

In terms of next steps, we are engaging with allies. I believe our embassy on the ground has also been in touch with U.S. and UN allies to discuss the situation.

I don't have further insights into some of the other steps we've taken, given that this news has just reached us quite recently, but I will turn to my colleague. We are taking the situation very seriously and we agree that these bad—

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Are there other tools in the tool box? I mean, we have spent money on development. We've spent money on humanitarian assistance in crises, including earthquakes and other climate-related crises. We've attempted to shore up with training of both police and other parts of the government.

Are we missing something? Is there something where we, as Canadians, could follow another country's model about how we support?

Is there something you can tell the committee that maybe we haven't thought of? Could we have a new wild idea about what we do?

[Shalini Anand]

There are perhaps two additional areas that we are investing in and need to continue to invest in. Canada has played a leading role on the international stage in trying to encourage more investment into the MSSM to ensure the Haitian National Police, which are currently being backstopped or supported by the MSSM, are appropriately supported and trained. There is something to say about increasing the numbers of that MSSM support, so that there is less risk of gang and corruption impacts on the Haitian National Police.

That is an area where Canada has played a leading role on the world stage. We continue to invest as the second-largest investor in that security situation.

As my colleague has already mentioned and I mentioned earlier, we are pursuing sanctions to identify bad actors and create a deterrent threat.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

What are the discussions with CARICOM in this context? We generally think those closest to the neighbour should understand best. I don't mind at all that Kenya—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Give a very brief response.

[Sylvie Bédard]

Mr. Chair, co-operation with the Caribbean Community, CARICOM, is actually an innovative feature of Canada's current response. The community, the Caribbean countries, previously weren't involved in the search for solutions to the various challenges in Haiti. Now they're involved in strengthening both political governance and security.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to MP Chong.

You have five minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses who are here today. I have a few questions for them.

First, how many Canadian citizens are currently in Haiti?

[Shalini Anand]

Mr. Chair, at the moment our latest data is based on Canadians who register through our consular services.

It is about 3,000. I will just turn to my colleague to validate the exact number.

[Sébastien Beaulieu, Director General, Emergency Management, Legal and Consular Affairs Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

That is correct.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

There was reference to members of the Canadian Armed Forces and to the RCMP.

Just to clarify, do you know how many members of the Canadian Armed Forces and members of the RCMP are present in Haiti? If you don't, that's fine, but please provide that information to the committee, if you could.

[Sylvie Bédard]

At the moment, three RCMP members are in Haiti. No members of the Canadian Armed Forces are there.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

How many diplomatic and consular officials do we have in Haiti today?

[Shalini Anand]

Presently, we have 22 members of our diplomatic corps. That includes the consular—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Does that include locally engaged staff?

[Shalini Anand]

Presently, there are 22 Canadians in Haiti.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

There are 22 Canadians plus locally engaged staff, is that correct?

[Shalini Anand]

That's correct.