Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

All right, thank you.

Let's change the subject. Earlier we discussed Mr. Conille, who was installed as the transitional head of the presidential council and who has been replaced by Mr. Fils‑Aimé. Canada was quick to acknowledge that appointment, which has been strongly criticized, on social media a week ago. Mr. Macron said it was a terrible decision on Canada's part.

Is Canada the only country that has recognized Mr. Fils‑Aimé's appointment?

[Shalini Anand]

Canada acknowledged the transitional presidential council, or TPC, decision to appoint a new prime minister. We had a very positive working relationship with PM Conille and we are ready to work with new Prime Minister Fils-Aimé.

I am not in a position, Mr. Chair, to speculate about Mr. Macron's comments on—

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

What criteria did Canada rely on in recognizing Mr. Fils-Aimé's appointment?

[Shalini Anand]

I'll invite my colleague to speak.

[Sylvie Bédard]

Canada, the United States and our partners in the Caribbean Community, or CARICOM, took note of the change of prime minister that was decided by the transitional presidential council. In so doing, we also underscored how important it is for the transitional presidential council to focus on its major priorities, which are to restore democratic order and security and to establish clear accountability measures for the Haitian executive as a whole.

The situation regarding the transitional government bodies in Haiti is very complicated. As you'll remember, it took two years to put it in place. In fact, last March was the first time that such a large number of political sectors had joined forces to establish a government body. However, the situation remains tenuous. There's talk of a dual executive, with the transitional presidential council on the one hand and the prime minister on the other. It's particularly difficult—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Madam Bédard, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to cut you off. We're quite a bit over.

MP McPherson, you have six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here and sharing this information with us. I think everyone in this room and across Canada is very deeply concerned about what we are hearing on what is happening in Haiti, and what is happening to the Haitian people.

A lot of what we've heard so far is very concerning. We met recently with Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières, and we learned even just today that they've been forced to suspend all medical activities in Port-au-Prince due to escalating threats and violence, including from some members of the Haitian National Police. This has included threats to execute MSF staff and patients and to destroy ambulances. Also, two patients were executed.

This suspension leaves thousands of Haitians without life-saving medical care each week. We know that Canada is funding the Haitian National Police with millions of dollars and equipment. I believe this is very important to do, but given the concerns about threats from some of the Haitian National Police towards humanitarian workers, what steps is Canada taking to ensure that the police, who they are funding, training and equipping, are obeying the law and acting appropriately? How is Canada ensuring that Canadian funds and equipment aren't being used to perpetrate violence, threats to humanitarian workers and human rights abuses towards Haitians?

[Sylvie Bédard]

That's a very important question, Mr. Chair, and it's central to the way we're thinking about and planning our program in Haiti.

Canada expressed considerable concern following the events that you describe and that targeted Médecins sans frontières and humanitarian workers in Haiti, and it reminded everyone of our considerable responsibility to protect those workers there.

As regards our program and our support for the Haitian National Police, an enormous amount of work has been done to ensure that we perform our duty of diligence and responsibility. Under one of our measures, our program is being established in co-operation with long-standing partners, multilateral agencies that have all the necessary capacity to monitor spending and ensure that it is done responsibly. Thanks to our team on the ground, in particular the coordination and humanitarian assistance group directed by Canada, we are in regular touch with the Haitian National Police and conduct frequent visits on the ground to verify procurement, for example.

Lastly, the training that the RCMP offers the Haitian National Police includes polygraph training to screen new recruits and certain members of the Haitian National Police's strategic units. It also includes inspection and leadership training to prevent the kind of disruption and situations you refer to.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you for that.

I'm not saying the money should not be spent. I'm just wondering what has been put in place to ensure the Haitian police are receiving the training so that they are not committing those humanitarian abuses. It's not the effectiveness of the spending or what sorts of resources and supplies they have, but rather what training is being provided. Now that we have seen that Haitian police are alleged to have perpetrated crimes against humanitarian workers and against patients, what steps is Canada taking to ensure that training is in place?

[Sylvie Bédard]

Mr. Chair, Canada is working with the Haitian National Police in two complementary fields of action to ensure that training is properly provided by the right people.

The first is the International Security Assistance Coordination Group, which Canada established at the request of the Haitian National Police to screen training offers that were coming in from many partners around the world and to work with the Haitian National Police to determine what its priorities are and what's most relevant to its needs in its present situation.

Canada, together with RCMP officers through the interministerial group that was established, is assisting the Haitian National Police in developing relevant training plans that better meet its needs.

At the same time, Canada is involved, through the RCMP, in a training plan that's being executed by the latter. Given the present situation of insecurity, the training that the RCMP is providing to the Haitian National Police is currently being done in Jamaica, not Haiti, so that as much training as possible can be provided despite the situation on the ground in Haiti.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would encourage the Canadian government to look at specific training that looks at the protection of humanitarian workers and the protection of human rights.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will now go to the second round of five minutes each.

We're starting off with MP Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here this afternoon.

Is it fair to say we've at least stabilized the region now? Are there any indications of the destabilization of Haiti actually going to the Dominican Republic or any of the other Caribbean islands?

Are we seeing any grounding of organized crime or other networks locating in Haiti?

[Shalini Anand]

I'm hesitant to speculate or to indicate that there won't be any future regional instability. For the moment, the gang situation in Haiti seems largely contained to Haiti, in that the neighbouring Dominican Republic, aside from migration challenges—which I mentioned in my opening intervention—seems to be okay.

One of Canada's continued and vested interests in our engagement in Haiti is to make sure that regional stability remains and does not spill over into other parts of the hemisphere.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

You said Minister Joly had a round table in Montreal. What were the actual items that came out of the round table, and where are they at?

[Shalini Anand]

I'll turn to my colleague, Madame Bédard.

[Sylvie Bédard]

Mr. Chair, the areas of interest we've discussed with Montreal's Haitian community include all issues related to agricultural development and the strengthening of judicial and penal systems.

The point that was particularly raised was that it's important to focus on stabilizing the security situation but, at the same time, that work must be done to strengthen the judicial and penal system, which is now quite fragile in Haiti. Transportation infrastructure has also been discussed.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I was just curious. Those are all good things.

If you had the rule of law in place and if you had a functioning government in place, then those would be all noble causes to work towards, which I think we should be a part of. How can you water down what we need to do over the short term if you're spending so much time looking at things in the long term?

[Shalini Anand]

The situation in Haiti is indeed complex and challenging.

Canada has attempted, with our strategy, to do both, I think. First, we have taken an approach where we look at the fundamental areas that need to underpin a safe society while also taking into account the feedback that we hear from the Haitian diaspora community.

To review those pillars, we are looking at some of those initial fundamental pieces, as the honourable member had noted. First and foremost, we have invested heavily in the security improvement situation in—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I only get five minutes. I don't mean to be rude.

I'm curious. There are other countries in the region that have expertise in dealing with gangs. I'll use Colombia as an example, yet Colombia may not have the financial wherewithal to come in and participate.

Have we looked at how we could participate with allies, friends or people within the region to use their strengths and resources in shoring up and getting that rule of law under control, especially with countries that have expertise in doing exactly that?

[Shalini Anand]

Yes. Canada is working hand in glove with allied countries throughout the Caribbean and the region and with the UN, building on their expertise in this area, as well as allies like the U.S. I can give you a sense that even from a security perspective alone, we are providing training for battalions coming from Jamaica, Belize, Guatemala, the Bahamas, El Salvador and, of course, Kenya. Many of these countries have experiences that the honourable member indicated.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Why Kenya? I find it so amazing that we have to go to Africa to get that support, and we couldn't do it in our own backyard. We couldn't put together that type of network among the countries within the western hemisphere.

Why did we have to go to Kenya?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Answer very briefly.

[Shalini Anand]

Very briefly, Mr. Chair, the countries in the western Hemisphere have contributed considerably, including contributions through the MSSM and a number of the countries in the Caribbean that I named.

We are deeply grateful to Kenya for their ongoing involvement, including their first deployment and their next deployment, which is upcoming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Next, we go to MP Zuberi.