Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 26th, 2024

[Tara Denham]

Again, we're bound by the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and what is proposed we would not be able to fulfill. Because it's not within the Vienna convention, we would have to have an arrangement in place so that they would provide access to those permanent residents. Unfortunately, that would not be a reality for the countries we're talking about, so for a large proportion of permanent residents, it raises expectations that we would not be able to fulfill.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Mr. Bergeron, you have two minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Since my time is short, I'll ask you the question that strikes me as the most important. If I still have time, I'll ask you another question.

You shared a number of reservations about this bill, which certainly comes with good intentions but contains some provisions that remain fraught with issues.

In your opinion, could we amend this bill to make it applicable to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development? Or would it be better to scrap the whole thing and start afresh?

[Tara Denham]

It starts by saying that this applies to all cases—terrorist cases, criminal cases and states—but cases are very unique. It starts from a premise of treating all cases the same. In our analysis, that is a fundamental issue, and it was really our objective to raise some of those concerns.

There are significant considerations that would have to be taken into account, clause by clause, and I think I've gone through and noted some. It is our assessment that quite significant changes would be required.

At the end of the day, we feel that we do have the tools available. We need to continue to strengthen the tools. It is not through legislation that we think this can be done; it is through making sure that we have the resources and the ability to implement the tools that are already available to us.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Do I still have time to speak, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have 20 seconds.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Briefly, clause 5 of the bill refers to orders that could prohibit or restrict certain activities.

Can't the government do this type of thing already?

[Tara Denham]

Give me a moment. I would like to confirm something.

I'll hand it to my colleague with the expertise on assets and seizures.

[Vasken Khabayan]

In our current autonomous sanction measures in SEMA and JVCFOA, there are options to be able to seize assets of non-actors, as well as a discussion on state actors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

For the last two minutes, we go to Madam McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have two quick questions for our guests from the RCMP and the CBSA.

First of all, we've heard from experts who have spoken about concerns over the potential misuse of broad powers for targeting individuals. We've certainly seen how other security legislation has impacted minority communities disproportionately over the years, with particular concerns for the Muslim and Arab communities, who have felt targeted by Canada's security agencies as a result.

How would the RCMP work to prevent the bill's implementation from disproportionately affecting certain communities or from creating “suspect communities”?

I'll ask both questions at once, and you guys can answer them.

For the CBSA, are there mechanisms in place within the CBSA to verify the identity of individuals to prevent a wrongful designation or inadmissibility under the bill? How would the CBSA handle cases of individuals who were incorrectly targeted or required an expedited resolution?

[C/Supt Denis Beaudoin]

I'll try to be quick, but ultimately, it would be a response mechanism. The bill is set up so that an event needs to occur internationally to trigger any use of the powers in the bill.

What I'll point out is that the RCMP doesn't gain much through the bill. It falls under the minister for Global Affairs, so our powers would be limited, as the minister would hold much of those new powers.

We're part of the task force that tackles this and we play an important role, but again, in dealing with families and everything, we already have processes in place and we remain in close contact with them throughout the incident.

I'll leave it at that so my colleague can further expand on it.

[Derek Janhevich]

I'll start by saying that there are measures in place that the CBSA takes. I'll pass the mic over to my colleague here, who has more operational experience in that area.

[Jeff Robertson, Manager, Inadmissibility Policy, Canada Border Services Agency]

I don't expect that the CBSA would have a whole lot of influence in whether or not the minister for foreign affairs would put a package forward for GIC consideration to impose sanctions. Our role would be to respond to the sanctions that have been imposed on a person, based on their name, date of birth and other biographical details. Our officials would rely on that biographical information to render an inadmissibility determination.

What options are available to immigration officials, perhaps in response to inadmissibility determination? At ports of entry, CBSA officers—and, in Canada, IRCC officers—have discretion to issue temporary resident permits that will authorize temporary residence to people notwithstanding inadmissibility, including an inadmissibility due to sanctions. This is a regular authority that is at the discretion of officers. We use it every day, I can say.

However, I don't see a role for the CBSA in determining whether or not to impose sanctions on a person or assessing the merits of that decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

That concludes our questions.

At this point, I want to thank Mr. Robertson, Mr. Janhevich, Mr. Beaudoin, Ms. Denham, Ms. Csaba, and Mr. Khabayan. We're very grateful for your time, your expertise and your perspective.

Go ahead, Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to know whether we followed up with the Minister of Foreign Affairs to get her to appear before the committee. We just received a note stating that she would be speaking to the Montreal Council on Foreign Relations on December 13, I believe. It seems easier for her to make herself available to speak to the public than to appear before our committee.

Have we followed up with the minister to get her to appear before the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I did check in today. We haven't heard anything back.

When did the email go out?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Alexandre (Sacha) Vassiliev]

It went out on the day it was discussed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

It was the day it was discussed. That's understood.

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Last, is it the will of the committee that the proposed supplementary budget in the amount of $5,900 for the study of Bill C-353, the foreign hostage takers accountability act, be adopted?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

That's excellent.

The meeting is adjourned.