Evidence of meeting #131 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I have a point of order again.
I just want a clarification that you can make two reports to the House. If you read the standing order, it suggests that you cannot, Mr. Chair. The standing order says “either [the chair reports] the bill to the House”, amended or unamended, “or” the chair reports that the committee recommends that the House “not...proceed further with the bill, and [provides] the reasons therefor”.
It's not both. You can't do both.
Jacques Maziade
The standing order says that you have to report within 60 sitting days. If you don't report back, it's deemed reported back without amendment. That is the rule.
If the committee doesn't agree with the bill itself, and if, as Mr. Oliphant says, we put in brackets “We don't like the bill,” he can move a motion to tell the House that we don't like this bill if the motion is adopted by the committee. You can do that. You can report back all of your decisions.
At the same time, you can say that the committee....
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I think I have come to the understanding of what this is about. In practice, only the House can ultimately deem the final form of a bill. Committees cannot. Therefore, all we are doing is looking at the bill, recommending amendments to it and reporting to the House that we've considered it with amendments and are sending it back for third reading. We can't—though I think we should be able to—vote against the bill and have it not be reported back to the House. If we don't report, it's deemed reported anyway, because the House has final disposition of the bill.
There's a counterintuitive part to this. When it comes to, “Shall the bill carry?” we vote no or yes to that, and if it's a no, it is simply reported back that we considered the bill. It's not reported back that we considered it and said no. The only way to do that is through a separate motion, a separate report under Standing Order 97.1.
I've had to really learn that, because I've never had to do this one before, even as a chair of a committee.
I do have a motion ready that would allow us to report that back. The alternative method for a committee to recommend that a bill not proceed is by way of a second report to the House. On the procedure, what I understand is that.... I'm going to read this. It's from House of Commons Procedure and Practice, chapter 16.
The committee is bound by its order of reference—the bill—and may only report the bill with or without amendment to the House.
On the other hand...there's nothing to prevent a standing committee, under its permanent mandate in the Standing Orders, from presenting [a separate] report in which it sets out substantive recommendations with respect to the subject matter of the bill. On a number of occasions, a committee has presented a report to the House either recommending that a bill be withdrawn or informing the House that the committee has agreed that the bill not be further proceeded with.
It will be just in advance of my motion that it will say that.
It further clarifies that:
In such circumstances, the final decision as to the fate of a bill lies with the House as a whole, and not...[with us], whose function is to discharge its mandate from the House and to report the bill.
They've told us to look at it; we've discharged our activity. Although the process for dealing with the report in the House varies from that for report stage, it's similar and still requires an hour of debate and a vote by the full House.
This will go to the House and will have a time. What I like about this is that Mr. Bergeron will get to put the concerns he raised into a speech in the House, which then needs to be considered by the government, with the flaws to our system. That gives a chance for each member of the House to talk about the problems that the bill attempted to address but that we feel it didn't address, so we have that time.
House of Commons Procedure and Practice says:
After considering a private Member's public bill, a committee may report to the House that it does not believe the bill should proceed any further. Once the report is presented, a notice of motion to concur in the report is automatically placed on the Notice Paper.
Therefore, it's not a case of moving concurrence or not; it's automatically on the Notice Paper.
It continues:
The motion stands in the name of the Member who presented the report, usually the Chair of the committee. No other notice of motion for concurrence in the report can be placed on the Notice Paper. The motion is taken up after Private Members' Hour on a day fixed by the Speaker.
The motion is deemed moved at the beginning of the debate and may be considered for not more than one hour. Each speech is limited to 10 minutes and there is no questions and comments period. At the end of the hour, or earlier if no other Members rise to speak, the Speaker puts the question on the motion. If requested, a recorded division on the motion is automatically deferred until the next Wednesday sitting.
That's a long explanation, none of which I knew before I had to look into how we do this. That would be where I would be going with this.
On principle, based on what the witnesses have said, we will be voting against the bill, but we don't care whether the chair reports the bill, and I don't think we'll get it reprinted, because I think it's going to waste money. Then we'll present another motion under Standing Order 97.1.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I'm going to make one comment, and then I'm going to ask you to suspend for a minute so I can consult, because this affects House business.
First off, if the bill's not reported, then the unamended bill is reported back to the House.
Is that correct, Mr. Chair? It is. Okay.
There are a whole bunch of things in play here. Can we suspend for a couple of minutes so I can consult with some colleagues, because this impacts House business?
Liberal
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I just want to clarify something that Rob brought forward.
If I understand correctly—and I want to make sure I understand correctly—what will happen is that nothing can happen in the House until this concurrence debate has been disposed of. It takes precedence over....
I guess my other question is, what are the implications on a House that is currently undertaking a point of privilege and has been for a very long time?
I would just like to understand a bit better what this actually means in the House.
Jacques Maziade
If you give the authority to the chair to report the bill back to the House, the bill will go on the order of precedence, at the bottom of the order of precedence. It will go up, and there will be a debate at report stage and at the third reading and there could be amendments there.
If you don't give the authority to the chair, next Monday there is another option. Next Monday the bill will be deemed reported back to the House, will be put at the bottom of the order of precedence. It will go up, and there will be a debate at report stage and third reading. If Mr. Oliphant moves his motion and the motion is adopted, as he explained and they explained it, it will be reported to the House and there will be a debate in the House on his motion, but the bill itself will still be on the order of precedence, and if his motion is adopted in the House, the bill will be removed from the order of precedence and the bill will die.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
When will his motion be debated? That's the clarity I need.
Jacques Maziade
I think it's the Speaker with the whips who will decide a time to debate that.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I'm sorry to interrupt, but does that mean that there can be no other concurrence debates prior? Does that mean that there can be no other debates on the question of privilege? What does that do to that?
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
So there could be other concurrence debates brought forward this afternoon or whenever?
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
I know there's a point of order and lots of references to this motion. I have not seen the motion, so I'd like to have a copy, Mr. Chair, of the motion that we are supposedly going to debate here in committee.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I will. After we suspend, I'll be able to finalize the motion, because I actually didn't know what would happen in this debate. We will have a copy of the motion, which we can distribute in both languages.
I would just say to remember that it won't be my motion in the House. It will be the report of the committee, which was because I moved it. It's not going to be my motion in the House. It will be a report—really, there are going to be two reports. There's either a report from the chair or a deemed report. It will be deemed reported back based on the bill itself.
So the House is going to deal with the bill based on either a report from the chair or, if he doesn't report, a deemed report from the committee and if the motion I present passes, there will be a separate motion that says we would have not an immediate but a concurrence debate on a report from this committee that's automatic. For most committee reports, someone needs to move concurrence to bother a debate. We've had a lot of those lately, but you can't then move a concurrence debate. It's automatic but it happens when the Speaker talks to the whips about House business and House leaders, and it's in consultation. I finally figured that out.
NDP
