Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

I think Mr. Chong raised the issue of migration as well. Much of the issue is stemming from Venezuela and the political crisis of Venezuela with the illegitimate regime that exists there. The challenges tend to be in Colombia, Brazil and Peru, but also from Colombia up across the Darién Gap and into Central America.

Can you tell me a little bit about what is meant in the news when we hear about the Darién Gap?

[Sylvie Bédard, Director General, Central America and Caribbean, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Indeed, the Darién Gap is one of the main migration routes from South America to the north. Those migration flows are constantly changing. Over the past year, the number of migrants crossing the Darién Gap has been declining. However, the use of other migratory routes in the region is on the rise.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

In terms of the domestic effect on Canada, will we see increasing patterns of unplanned migration from that area that somehow get to Canada, either through the United States or via either ocean? Is that on our radar?

[Sylvie Bédard]

We are constantly monitoring migration flows in the region. As my colleague said, about 83% to 85% of migrants are currently choosing to stay in the Latin American region rather than come north.

We are certainly keeping a close eye on those migration flows. We do a lot of work on what causes people to migrate north. There are more and more young people and women. Our development programming includes economic development opportunities in the most vulnerable parts of the countries the migrants come from.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Okay. I have one last question.

I want to raise the issue of indigenous peoples. The one thing that I think unites us in the Americas is the effect of colonialization on indigenous peoples from the very far south right up into the Canadian Arctic. I've been at the OAS, where indigenous communities are often referred to as “interest groups” or “stakeholders”. Canada understands indigenous peoples as “governments”. They're not non-profit organizations.

Are we taking any stances to attempt to elevate the participation of indigenous peoples in the institutions that you started with?

[Wendy Drukier]

Of course, Canada has taken a very clear position on the status of indigenous peoples in Canada. We work to promote reconciliation and respect of their rights throughout the Americas, where this is a reality in many countries with quite a high percentage of indigenous peoples. Of course, we continue to follow the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in all our dealings.

There have been ongoing discussions with representatives of indigenous peoples at the OAS. We continue to promote their participation and the recognition of their status.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Next we go to Mr. Bergeron. You have six minutes, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies, thank you for being with us today, and thank you for the work that you and your colleagues do on a daily basis to maintain a presence for Canada and its various groups in the Americas, particularly in Latin America.

Since 2004, the AmericasBarometer, the largest research initiative by the Latin American Public Opinion Project at Vanderbilt University, has been measuring attitudes, evaluations, experiences and behaviours in the Americas. The latest edition is based on data from 34 countries in North America, Central America, South America and the Caribbean. One of the key findings of this latest edition is that support for democracy has eroded significantly in Latin America and the Caribbean over the past two decades. In some places, such as Uruguay and Costa Rica, support for democracy remains high, but in countries such as Suriname and Guatemala, it's below 50%. That means one out of every two citizens doesn't believe in democracy.

Is that something you're concerned about? What steps is Canada taking to help reverse this growing trend?

[Wendy Drukier]

It's obviously a very important issue, and something that the Canadian government is concerned with in terms of the declining support for democracy in a number of countries in the region.

The research shows that while a majority of people in most countries in Latin America still believe that democracy's the best form of government, the decline is obviously very concerning. We know, for example, that organized crime is playing a role both in challenging democratic institutions and in eroding support for democracy. Corruption erodes support for democracy as well.

The violence and insecurity created by organized crime can cause citizens to lose confidence in democratic institutions and governments. Instability and insecurity have also encouraged some governments to resort to increasingly heavy-handed approaches that suspend rights, further restrict civil society and erode the rule of law, so it is a vicious cycle.

As I mentioned previously, we support the OAS in its efforts to protect and strengthen democracy through electoral observation and the strengthening of electoral processes and through political dialogue, support for media freedom and the protection of human rights online. In addition to funding electoral observation missions, our funding to the OAS supports technical assistance to improve the capacity of member states' national electoral bodies.

We also fund various projects aimed at supporting democracy, including by improving inclusive governance, tackling corruption, enhancing the rule of law and increasing women's political participation in many countries in the region.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I want to follow up on that.

A few weeks ago, on November 19, we learned that five people were arrested in connection with a January 2022 assassination attempt on the current President of Brazil, Lula da Silva. They are accused of attempting a coup. Four of those arrested are military personnel, including Mario Fernandes, who held a senior position in Mr. Bolsonaro's administration. We also know that, in February 2024, an investigation was launched into former president Bolsonaro for this alleged coup attempt.

First, would you say that democracy is alive and well in Brazil?

Second, what do you think of Brazil's increasingly close ties with BRICS, the group made up of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, which is trying to expand membership to somewhat disreputable powers and whose actions raise concerns about the future?

[Wendy Drukier]

Mr. Chair, on the question of the arrests and the accusations of a conspiracy, of a coup in Brazil, we're of course aware of that, and we're very concerned. It's a very serious matter, and we're certainly following it. I think we need to let the Brazilian judicial process run its course. Obviously, this is a threat to democracy in Brazil, but we believe that there are strong enough institutions—in particular, the judicial arm of government—that will be looking into this, and we don't have a comment to make for the moment further than that. We're awaiting the conclusion of that.

In terms of Brazil's involvement with the BRICS, what we can say is that Brazil is obviously an important economy. It's now become the ninth-largest economy in the world. It is a developing country, and it is seen as a leader in the global south on the multilateral stage.

Of course, we're closely following the evolution of the BRICS to see how the group's actions and their messaging may influence Canadian interests, but of course we continue to engage with countries like Brazil and other members of the BRICS as needed to pursue common objectives.

We're definitely like-minded with Brazil on a number of issues. We share a lot of values. We may not share the same interests on some issues, and we can engage in constructive dialogue with Brazil on those issues.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

It sounds like you're saying democracy is doing well in Brazil.

[Wendy Drukier]

Mr. Chair, I don't think it's a yes-or-no answer. Everything is a shade of grey.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

What shade of grey are we talking about here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron, I'm afraid you're out of time.

Next we go to Mr. Singh. Mr. Singh, welcome to the committee.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Greetings to all the members of the committee.

Mr. Chair, I'll be moving a motion for which notice was given on June 19, 2024. I move:

That, given that,

i) Indian state actors utilized government resources in 1984 to engage in action consistent with the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 260, commonly known as the "Genocide Convention", including the systematic and organized killings of Sikhs,

ii) where possible, it has been the policy of the Government of Canada to act in concert with international law when it comes to the recognition of a genocide,

iii) India’s own Nanavati Commission report acknowledges the killings were systematic and organized,

iv) Indian courts have observed genocide has been duly proved and established,

the committee call upon the House to recognize that a genocide was carried out against the Sikhs in India, call upon the Indian government to take measures to bring those responsible for this violence to justice, and that this motion be reported to the House.

Mr. Chair, I'm prepared to motivate for the motion whenever you think it's appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Did you want to speak to it? I'm sorry; I didn't hear the word you used.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

I can motivate the reasons that this motion should be supported if it's the appropriate time to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Absolutely.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First off, it's been 40 years since this genocide occurred. It is something that has caused deep trauma for the Sikh community, many of whom have proudly chosen Canada to be home. It is an impact that continues to have serious pain, and to date, there has been no formal recognition of this genocide.

The inaction leaves those wounds, and many members of the Sikh community still face transnational violence. We recently saw in the RCMP's report that there is still an ongoing allegation of targeted violence by the Indian government against the Sikh community.

Recognizing this genocide would be an act of solidarity. It would show that, whether violence happens now or happened in the past, Canada takes a stance against that type of violence.

I've personally spoken with a number of Sikh organizations, including the World Sikh Organization of Canada, the Sikh Federation Canada, the Ontario Gurdwaras Committee and the British Columbia Gurdwaras Council. These organizations in total represent a significant portion of the Sikh community in Canada. We're talking about all of the major gurdwaras in provinces like Ontario and B.C., and the Sikh Federation Canada makes up organizations of gurdwaras from across the country. They have all specifically urged Parliament to formally recognize this tragedy and to acknowledge the enduring pain it has caused.

I ask all members of the committee to support this motion and see that it be brought into Parliament. I think this would be a really powerful step towards acknowledging the harm, and it would be a powerful step towards justice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Go ahead, MP Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank Mr. Singh for bringing this to our attention.

I think that the events of 1984 he refers to, which we will all know in this room, were horrendous and were tragic. I believe that they have left scars and trauma for thousands of families in India and in Canada. Many Sikhs in Canada and around the world continue to feel the pain. This is something that has happened close to them and close to their hearts.

I would also respond that for me, this is not just an Indian issue; it is also a Canadian issue, by virtue of our population in this country.

The comments that I am about to give are not on the actual statement or the motion that he has presented but rather on the process by which I think we should move forward on issues like this.

The committee acts upon two things: motions from the members of the committee on topics that we think are important for us as parliamentarians to study, and work that is referred to us from Parliament. That may be legislation or it may be another motion that Parliament passes and sends to us.

The opportunity we have on this committee is to delve deeply into topics through study; through witnesses, such as those we have today; and through the work that committees do, sometimes around the clock, in this and other buildings on Parliament Hill.

We study issues, we listen to witnesses, we hear testimony, and then, as a committee, we make recommendations to Parliament and/or government.

I believe that the precedent on such a motion.... There are three ways that such a motion could be brought to the attention of the House. One is through a unanimous consent motion, which could simply be any sort of recognition or any sort of action. The second could be a private member's bill—a piece of legislation—or it could be through a private member's motion. All of those are ways that something can be brought to the House. It could go through the Senate or the House of Commons to get to our attention and be referred to us for study, or it may be acted upon in Parliament or in the committee of the whole.

As such, we don't think at this time that this precedent and this way of working are a good process. We encourage Mr. Singh to have conversations with representatives of all the parties and to find a path forward on this issue that would honour our parliamentary traditions more fully.

As such, I move that the debate now be adjourned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

That being a dilatory motion, can we agree to this on division?

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

I would call for a recorded vote. I want to see exactly who is voting against recognizing a Sikh genocide.

I would like it to be known, and I will make sure that everyone in this country and every community knows who voted this way.